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To: Walter Scott Hudson

“This brings us back to the argument we should be having, which is whether the NPV compact has merit as policy.”

Why debate NPV?

This is a republic, not a democracy. Democratic, yes, but no democracy. The Constitution deliberately protected the interests of the smaller states. The NPV would swamp and swallow up the smaller states. Why not disband the Senate while we are at it?

“...not an argument. We don’t conserve institutions merely because they exist.”

Yes we do. It’s called the Constitution. An NPV will never reach ratification, and a defacto NPV movement will be overruled by the Supreme Court.

Assuming there is still a Constitution left....


27 posted on 06/24/2011 8:33:24 AM PDT by Nabber
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To: Nabber

None of the 10 most rural states (VT, ME, WV, MS, SD, AR, MT, ND, AL, and KY) is a battleground state.
The current state-by-state winner-take-all method of awarding electoral votes does not enhance the influence of rural states, because the most rural states are not battleground states.

12 of the 13 lowest population states (3-4 electoral votes) are almost invariably non-competitive, and ignored, in presidential elections. Six regularly vote Republican (Alaska, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, North Dakota, and South Dakota), and six regularly vote Democratic (Rhode Island, Delaware, Hawaii, Vermont, Maine, and DC) in presidential elections Despite the fact that these 12 lowest population states together possess 40 electoral votes, because they are not closely divided battleground states, none of these 12 states get visits, advertising or polling or policy considerations by presidential candidates.

These 12 states together contain 11 million people. Because of the two electoral-vote bonus that each state receives, the 12 non-competitive small states have 40 electoral votes. However, the two-vote bonus is an entirely illusory advantage to the small states. Ohio has 11 million people and has “only” 20 electoral votes. As we all know, the 11 million people in Ohio are the center of attention in presidential campaigns, while the 11 million people in the 12 non-competitive small states are utterly irrelevant. Nationwide election of the President would make each of the voters in the 12 lowest population states as important as an Ohio voter.

In 2004, Bush’s cumulative vote lead of 650,421 in the 6 then reliably Republican states only got him 19 electoral votes, while Kerry’s cumulative vote lead of 444,115 in the 6 then reliably Democratic states, got him 21 electoral votes.

Senator Robert E. Dole of Kansas, the Republican nominee for President in 1996 and Republican nominee for Vice President in 1976, stated in a 1979 floor speech:
“Many persons have the impression that the electoral college benefits those persons living in small states. I feel that this is somewhat of a misconception. Through my experience with the Republican National Committee and as a Vice Presidential candidate in 1976, it became very clear that the populous states with their large blocks of electoral votes were the crucial states. It was in these states that we focused our efforts.
“Were we to switch to a system of direct election, I think we would see a resulting change in the nature of campaigning. While urban areas will still be important campaigning centers, there will be a new emphasis given to smaller states. Candidates will soon realize that all votes are important, and votes from small states carry the same import as votes from large states. That to me is one of the major attractions of direct election. Each vote carries equal importance.
“Direct election would give candidates incentive to campaign in States that are perceived to be single party states.

The concept of a national popular vote for President is far from being politically “radioactive” in small states, because the small states recognize they are the most disadvantaged group of states under the current system.

In Gallup polls since 1944, only about 20% of the public has supported the current system of awarding all of a state’s electoral votes to the presidential candidate who receives the most votes in each separate state (with about 70% opposed and about 10% undecided). The recent Washington Post, Kaiser Family Foundation, and Harvard University poll shows 72% support for direct nationwide election of the President. Support is strong among Republican voters, Democratic voters, and independent voters, as well as every demographic group surveyed in virtually every state surveyed in recent polls. Support in smaller states (3 to 5 electoral votes): Alaska — 70%, DC — 76%, Delaware —75%, Idaho – 77%, Maine — 77%, Montana – 72%, Nebraska — 74%, New Hampshire —69%, Nevada — 72%, New Mexico — 76%, Oklahoma – 81%, Rhode Island — 74%, South Dakota – 71%, Utah - 70%, Vermont — 75%, and West Virginia – 81%, and Wyoming – 69%.

In the 13 lowest population states, the National Popular Vote bill already has been approved by nine state legislative chambers, including one house in, Delaware, the District of Columbia, and Maine and both houses in Hawaii, Rhode Island, and Vermont. It has been enacted by the District of Columbia, Hawaii, and Vermont.


63 posted on 06/24/2011 9:49:52 AM PDT by mvymvy
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To: Nabber
Yes we do [conserve institutions simply because they exist]. It’s called the Constitution. An NPV will never reach ratification, and a defacto NPV movement will be overruled by the Supreme Court.

It's interesting that you bring up ratification, because it undermines your expressed sentiment. Amendments are just as constitutional as the Constitution itself. And that process was thoughtfully included for the express purpose of changing course as the rational need developed and the political will manifested.

Of course, in this case, ratification is entirely beside the point. This is not an effort to amend the Constitution. It is not an effort to eliminate the Electoral College. It is an effort to utilize the College in a manner which serves the participating states.

I'm curious to know under what grounds you would expect the Court to overturn the compact. I think you'd find that the Court would affirm the states' constitutional power to dispose of their electoral votes as they see fit.

86 posted on 06/24/2011 11:37:28 PM PDT by Walter Scott Hudson (fightinwords.us)
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