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To: Matchett-PI; getoffmylawn; kosta50; count-your-change; Diamond; boatbums; betty boop; LeGrande
6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 "Do not be amazed that I said to you, `You must be born again.'

No in 7 he once again says "born from above" (not 'again'). The previous verse makes it clear that if you are born of the spirit you are a spirit, not flesh, and only a spirit can enter Israel (the kingdom of God)! That is admittedly some novel theology for Jew who believed in the Torah to profess.

3,405 posted on 06/16/2011 9:32:49 AM PDT by kosta50
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To: kosta50; Matchett-PI
John knew what he was saying and he knew what Jesus said, far better than you do, I might say.

John used a Greek word meaning from the beginning, anew, from the top, and it is a misunderstanding to argue that “anothen” meant “from heaven or above” in John 3.

Nicodemus responded to what he heard and understood in Hebrew and trying to say he couldn't understand the words spoken to him is just pettifogging. He actually heard Jesus’ words and you haven't.

Nicodemus had been born of the flesh and it was necessary that he be born of the spirit, “born again”.

“That is admittedly some novel theology for Jew who believed in the Torah to profess.”

No, it wasn't. Nicodemus was a teacher and as Jesus said he should have known those things and yet here Nicodemus was asking Jesus questions since Nicodemus didn't have God's blessing and couldn't understand what he was supposed to be teaching.
Thank you very much.

3,413 posted on 06/16/2011 10:25:59 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: kosta50
"No in 7 he once again says "born from above" (not 'again'). The previous verse makes it clear that if you are born of the spirit you are a spirit, not flesh, and only a spirit can enter Israel (the kingdom of God)! That is admittedly some novel theology for Jew who believed in the Torah to profess."

Really?

Ezekiel 36:25-27: "I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit __in__ you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit __in__ you and move you to follow my decrees..."

Similar sentiments are found elsewhere in Jewish literature. Here is another passage from the Qumran material (1QS 4:19-21):

He will cleanse him of all wicked deeds by means of a holy spirit; like purifying waters He will sprinkle upon him the spirit of truth.

NT:

Matthew - Chapter 8: 21-22

Another of the disciples said to him, "Lord, let me first go and bury my father."

And Jesus said to him, "Follow me, and leave the dead to bury their own dead."

Spiritual death is when a person is alive physically, but dead spiritually.

[But] you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins in which you once lived, following the course of this world, following the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work among those who are disobedient. All of us once lived among them in the passions of our flesh, following the desires of flesh and senses, and we were by nature children of wrath, like everyone else (Ephesians 2:1-3).

The wayward son was said to have been spiritually dead. "But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found (Luke 15:32).

3,415 posted on 06/16/2011 10:53:52 AM PDT by Matchett-PI (In the latter times the man [or woman] of virtue appears vile. --Tao Te Ching)
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