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To: betty boop; metmom; boatbums; caww; AndrewC; Cronos
But then, I supposed he had to refuse, since to acknowledge it would implicitly entail the recognition that God, as transcendent Being, is not reducible to human techniques of proof. Which was my entire point.

To so reduce Him is to treat Him as if He were an entirely immanent existent, like any other ordinary object of the natural world — which He is not. Hence my conclusion that any such proof would be worthless, in that it can tell us nothing about God, but only about how some men would like to reason about Him. That is to say, to falsely reason about Him — by bringing Him "down" to the level of an object of ordinary human observation and experience.

If such a thing could be done, however — which it cannot — faith would be altogether unnecessary.

Precisely so, dearest sister in Christ, and extremely well said!

The Jewish mystics use the name Ayn Sof when speaking of God The Creator. The term means "no thing" and the point it makes ties directly to your insights. Namely, that any word-concept a mere mortal would use to describe God by its use restricts that person's understanding of Him to the term he used.

Or to put it another way, words that apply to the creation (time, space, math, logic, etc.) are not properties of The Creator of them.

The tendency of mortals to describe God in mortal terms - or attempt to "prove" that He is - is yet another type of idol-making.

Evidently, primitive men enjoyed making their own household idols. They could see, embrace and bow before those objects. They could take their gods with them and throw them in the fire if they were tired of them.

They were only as real as they wanted them to be.

Modern men who insist on "proof" of God are no different at heart because they also want a god they can model in their minds and play with mentally as they choose.

Ironically, their very insistence prevents them from receiving the real proof of God which we Christians have received - His indwelling.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. - Romans 8:9

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. - John 3:5-8

What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? - I Cor 6:19

Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. - John 15:4-5

God's Name is I AM.

3,278 posted on 06/14/2011 10:43:20 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl; caww; metmom; xzins; Matchett-PI; boatbums; kosta50; James C. Bennett; LeGrande
...any word-concept a mere mortal would use to describe God by its use restricts that person's understanding of Him to the term he used.... The tendency of mortals to describe God in mortal terms — or attempt to "prove" that He is — is yet another type of idol-making.... Evidently, primitive men enjoyed making their own household idols. They could see, embrace and bow before those objects. They could take their gods with them and throw them in the fire if they were tired of them.... They were only as real as they wanted them to be.

Exactly!!! Outstanding insights, dearest sister in Christ!

Perhaps atheists resent God because He is all-powerful and they are not.

Thank you ever so much for your outstanding insights, dearest sister in Christ!

God's Name is I AM.

3,281 posted on 06/14/2011 10:51:45 AM PDT by betty boop (We are led to believe a lie when we see with, and not through, the eye. — William Blake)
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To: Alamo-Girl; betty boop; metmom; boatbums
Modern men who insist on "proof" of God are no different at heart because they also want a god they can model in their minds and play with mentally as they choose.

!

3,284 posted on 06/14/2011 11:00:25 AM PDT by AndrewC
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