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To: boatbums; kosta50

No, you didn’t answer it at all. Was it a ‘yes’ or a ‘no’?

How are they saved? If they are saved, of what use is the Gospel?

Nice shirt, by the way. LOL.


2,503 posted on 06/09/2011 10:53:45 PM PDT by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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To: James C. Bennett
I hoped you'd like that pic. LOL :o)

How are they saved? If they are saved, of what use is the Gospel?

Just like the question I asked of you demanding a yes or no answer and you wouldn't/couldn't answer it in that way, is what many including me have been trying to get across. You want a cut and dried yes or no answer to a question that isn't even phrased right.

First of all, no one could be able say if an entire group of people - "tribal" in this case - can ever have something asked about them answered as a definite yes or no regarding ANYTHING. A collective is not judged, only individuals.

Second, the Christian faith deals with individuals only - it's between each person and God. A parent cannot save a child nor vice versa.

Third, the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to ALL. Each person then must decide how to respond to that grace. Certainly you would allow that some people will be unable to respond due to age, mental capacity, etc. For those, God's mercy, grace and love will cover. But for those who CAN respond, they are responsible before God to do so and it doesn't matter where they happen to be. Like I said in my earlier response, we cannot limit the power of God to get the truth to whosoever seeks it. God sees the heart of every person and he loves each one as a person. It is God's will that every one comes to the knowledge of the truth, so how could anyone accuse God of ignoring those who just happen to be in some place untrodden by Christian missionaries? I believe that if anyone sincerely desires the truth, they WILL hear it. But each person must receive what light they have been given and how they respond to that light will determine how much more light is given. No one will have an excuse before God.

So, the answer to your question would have to be - it depends. I asked you if you stopped beating your wife, and you don't have one, so you couldn't answer the question as a yes or no, could you? You ask me will the 'savages' be saved, yes or no? As I explained above, it isn't a simple yes or no question. If this is only what you will accept, then I would have to say that you are asking an impossible question NOT because I'm afraid of the ramifications of the answer, but because it all boils down to the individual and their capacity to respond to the light of truth. In God's eyes there ARE no savages/tribals, just people, people whom he loved so much that he gave his only Son that whosoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life. He provided a way for all to be redeemed. The sad part isn't who will never hear about it, but how many people will reject it when they do hear the Gospel.

That's the best I can answer you.

2,504 posted on 06/09/2011 11:37:54 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: James C. Bennett; boatbums; kosta50
How are they saved? If they are saved, of what use is the Gospel?

Boatbums answers from the individual relationship-with-God angle (vs. treating tribes as tribes), and that's a worthy aspect to consider.

Yet God deals with us in both ways: Both as individuals and members of larger groups. The Bible is full of corporate treatment, to the point where Jesus condemns entire towns in Luke for their rejection of Him.

James, you seem dead set to pit the Western "tribals" who claim Christ vs. the tribals who have yet to hear of Him. Tell me, have you -- or would you on this thread -- repeatedly pit Jews vs. Gentiles? Wasn't there a rather exclusive line drawn in Old Testament times between God's covenant people and Gentiles?

But did not God's promises apply to the Gentiles as far back as Genesis 12? That through Abraham (meaning the seed of Abraham, Jesus Christ) all peoples -- Gentiles, too, would be blessed?

I suppose you could have asked of those who adhere to Abraham, "But if ALL peoples will be blessed, of what use is it to belong to the original covenant people of God, Israel?"

Yet God's timetable is not ours: Generations of Gentiles indeed wasted away before knowing of Abraham's seed. Likewise, the same is true of certain tribes.

So just to be clear from a Biblical perspective:

Reverse to Abraham's day. How was he saved? Where was the Jesus for Him to believe and know?

What does Scripture say?

(1) “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness...We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness...It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith."(Romans 4:3,9, 13)

(2) Galatians 3:
Abraham 'believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.' 7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: 'All nations will be blessed through you.' 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith. 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because 'the righteous will live by faith.' 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, 'The person who does these things will live by them.' 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: 'Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.' 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit. 15 Brothers and sisters, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say 'and to seeds, meaning many people, but 'and to your seed,' meaning one person, who is Christ. (Gal. 3: 6-9, 11-16)

The promise Abraham believed in was the single seed -- meaning one person -- Jesus Christ.

2,615 posted on 06/10/2011 12:50:53 PM PDT by Colofornian (I already have a God as my leader. Why do I need ANOTHER one as POTUS?)
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