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To: kosta50; Alamo-Girl; metmom; James C. Bennett; xzins; caww; Matchett-PI
But betty boop says it doesn't matter. She says anyone is saved as long as they approve of Jesus as their Savior.

It isn't a matter of "approval," dear kosta. It is a matter of recognizing God's Truth.

You are so silly!

Plus metmom never argued that "doctrine doesn't matter." If it helps us "come to Jesus," then it is a help to us, a great blessing. But doctrine doesn't save us — only Christ does.

In your "flatland" world, you evidently miss distinctions of this type.

2,262 posted on 06/08/2011 10:49:56 AM PDT by betty boop (We are led to believe a lie when we see with, and not through, the eye. — William Blake)
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To: betty boop; kosta50; James C. Bennett
"It isn't a matter of "approval," dear kosta. It is a matter of recognizing God's Truth."

Yes. "We hold [recognize] these truths to be self-evident...". Who other than a refugee of the "Cukoos' Nest" would trot out to announce that he doesn't "approve" of them?

"Metaphysical truths are by no means accepted because they are merely logically clear, but because they are ontologically clear, and their logical clarity is only a trace of this imprinted on the mind." Here again, this kind of higher truth is "not held to be true -- by those who understand it -- because it is expressed in a logical manner, but it can be expressed in a logical manner because it is true, without -- obviously -- its truth ever being compromised by the possible shortcomings of human reason."

...metaphysical truth "has nothing to do with personal opinion, originality, or creativity -- quite the contrary. It is directed towards those realities which lie outside mental perimeters and which are unchanging. The most a metaphysician will ever want to do is reformulate some timeless truth so that it becomes more intelligible in the prevailing climate." ...

Thus, when the Founders said, "we hold these truths to be self-evident," they were not appealing to mere logic, but to something much higher -- something eternal, axial, and principial, in this or any other cosmos. They were not conveying to King George what they "thought" about reality, but they were disclosing and imparting this transcendent reality to the monarch.

These principles would still be true if not a single human being were aware of them -- which, strictly speaking, is impossible, being that the human, qua human, is the being that is by definition conformed or "proportioned" to the absolute. Humans and humans alone are the cosmic mediators between time and eternity, God and creation, vertical and horizontal -- which is why we may know eternal Truth and conform ourselves to it. Or not.

In short, because we possess free will (freedom being one of the Divine attributes reflected in the human being) we may incarnate Truth or uncarnate the Lie. It's all up -- or down -- to you.

HERE

2,266 posted on 06/08/2011 11:57:56 AM PDT by Matchett-PI (In the latter times the man [or woman] of virtue appears vile. --Tao Te Ching)
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