Posted on 04/22/2011 7:43:14 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
Just when it seemed the air had finally leaked out of the birthers' balloon, along comes Donald Trump with a fresh blast of wind.
Emboldened by The Donald's insistence that President Obama can't or won't prove he's a legal U.S. citizen, Arizona lawmakers passed the nation's first "birther bill" earlier this month. Gov. Jan Brewer — yes, that Jan Brewer — promptly vetoed it. There won't be an override attempt.
The notion that a presidential candidate might qualify for the state ballot by presenting a certificate of circumcision was too much, even for Arizona. But not for Trump, who may or may not be serious about trying to ride this nonsense all the way to the White House.
"People love this issue, especially in the Republican Party," he explained.
The Arizona bill would have required presidential candidates to submit proof of citizenship to get on the state's ballot. If Arizona's secretary of state wasn't satisfied with, say, the official certification of live birth issued by the state in which the candidate claimed to be born, then other documents — including "early baptismal or circumcision certificates" — could be submitted to support a claim of citizenship.
Brewer, a Republican who proudly signed Arizona's overreaching immigration bill last year, called the citizenship measure "a bridge too far." But lawmakers in at least a dozen other states have filed similar bills, and Trump is their new cheerleader.
His cheap grandstanding plays well with the doubters, but it isn't going to get Trump or any other Republican elected president.....
(Excerpt) Read more at chicagotribune.com ...
You are wrong. In 2004 the Federal government mandated birth certificate standards for the first time - the law was the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004: National Standards for Drivers’ Licenses, Social Security Cards, and Birth Certificates.
In this law the Federal government mandated a minimum set of requirements for birth certificates:
“(b) Standards for Acceptance by Federal Agencies. -
“(1) In general. - Beginning 2 years after the promulgation of minimum standards under paragraph (3), no Federal agency may accept a birth certificate for any official purpose unless the certificate conforms to such standards.
“(A) at a minimum, shall require certification of the birth
certificate by the State or local government custodian of
record that issued the certificate, and shall require the use of safety paper or an alternative, equally secure medium, the seal of the issuing custodian of record, and other features designed to prevent tampering, counterfeiting, or otherwise duplicating the birth certificate for fraudulent purposes;
So Federal law is driving changes in birth certificates. What does the Federal government require as a minimum to be on a birth certificate as proof of citizenship? This:
(a) Primary evidence of birth in the United States. A person born in the United States generally must submit a birth certificate. The birth certificate must show the full name of the applicant, the applicant’s place and date of birth, the full name of the parent(s), and must be signed by the official custodian of birth records, bear the seal of the issuing office, and show a filing date within one year of the date of birth.
Obama’s COLB meets all federal requirements for a birth certificate if it is printed on security paper and stamped/signed by the state. No Federal court would reject it as proof of citizenship.
More to the point, by now in most states when you ask for a birth certificate, you are going to get a form like Obama’s - when my son was born in Virginia that was the only birth certificate we got from the state. The days of “long form” birth certificates with a doctor’s signature is dead.
Further, a federal statute cannot define what is a birth certificate within the law of a state. Within the law of Hawaii a COLB is not a birth certificate. They are two different things. Moreover, the COLB in question does not meet the issuance date requirement set out in the statute to which you allude. Far from it. The COLB in question was clearly not issued within one year of the claimed date of birth. Such forms did not even exist at that time.
Finally, there is no "federal agency" involved here. Agency or administrative law is not at issue.
Jan Brewer — promptly vetoed it. There won't be an override attempt.
Ping to #83
>>Just when it seemed the air had finally leaked out of the birthers’ balloon,<<
Actually, the birther movement has been growing steadily since it first came up. That is probably what is scaring Urkel. Where will this issue be in a year?
Lets see:
1. It meets all Article II requirement: he is older than 35 and born in America.
2. If it doesn’t meet Hawaii law, why did they issue it and claim that it is a legal Hawaiian birth certificate? More to the point, the Federal government accepts it as a Hawaiian birth certificate.
3. The issuance date refers to the fact that it has to be filed within a year of birth. “and show a filing date within one year of the date of birth.”
4. You miss the point about the form - all birth data is now kept in a database. The state now will print out the appropriate data on the appropriate form and officially verify it. All data is now electronic - for example in Virgina there are no longer any “long form” birth certificates signed by a doctor. My son has no long form birth certificate - the state gave me a COLB when he was born.
5. This law is US Code - it is the law of the land. If an Hawaiian citizen wants to get a US passport the only document he can use is a COLB like Obama’s
Since the MSM and especially the Chicago media live in Bizarro World, believe the opposite of whatever they say. So, it’s actually excellent news that almost 75% of Iowan Republicans don’t believe that BS was born here or aren’t sure. And the first, not last, thing we need this presidential election to be about is making sure the Constitution isn’t being stomped and spat upon.
Love the comments there so far. The tide has certainly turned - sorry, obots!
Thanks again for all of the stories you post!
I just checked the comments on this editorial and there are only four and they all slam the ludicrous defense of the COLB in the piece.
That office told FReeper butterdezillion that their vital records for Barry are amended, which means the image presented by the Obama campaign was a fraud and did not come from their office, as a real COLB would have indicated as such. Now that you ave been corrected, please do not post this false information again to FreeRepublic.com.
Ever notice how those who scoff at whom they call “birthers”, insert their own thinking into their perception of how their opponents think.
They misunderstand, perhaps even are blind to the issue.
The issue is simple obedience to legitimate authority. In the case of our selection and election of government officials, if they fail to respect the legitimate mechanisms to receive the authority of the office they seek, they also lack the virtue to exercise the power entrusted to that office.
The “birther” issue isn’t so hinged upon where Obama was born, as much as it is hinged upon his being a ‘natural born citizen’. His father by his account was not an American citizen. His mother by his account did not reside in the US for the amount of time required for a single parented child to be declared a natural born US citizen. His single parent and himself were officially declared Indonesian citizens within several years of his birth and he remained overseas for many formative years of his childhood.
It is obvious Obama doesn’t meet the legitimate requirements of the office. He claims to have specialized in Constitutional Law. It is obvious that Obama is very cognizant of his illegitimate status.
This implies he not only is a bastard, but behaves with premeditated thinking, similar to the colloquial definition given that title.
Everybody may honestly state he is a US citizen from all appearances, but simple reasoning dictates he lacks honor, virtue, and strong evidence has been manifest he criminally intends to promote illegitimate behavior in more than one area, if not as a modus vivendi in his thinking.
The nation, and those who are virtuous in defending the Constitution, will support his removal, regardless if they support his political ideology.
As an aside, the longer he covers up this basic reasoning, the more questionable it becomes if indeed his placement hasn’t been orchestrated by far more traitorous machinations. It also manifests an incredible void of virtue in the powers which have even condoned or allowed such a situation to have evolved. Not only is his thinking and behavior criminal, but theirs is even moreso.
Butter, any comments???
Yes. African isn’t on the race options. Some PC person put it in later.
The Fact check document has never been introduced in any court of law or examined by an independent forensic document examiner. Two libs “inspected” it. If it later turns out to be a forgery there’s no legal consequences as it’s never been “officially” produced by Obama.
The serial numbers can be seen if you search online. The numbers are out of time sequence with the Nordyke twins. The twins have their long form BCs on the net.
Hawaiian official a few weeks ago said she saw in a bound volume Obama’s long form BC with typed info and signature as it should be. They just won’t show it.
This is after CNN reported Hawaii destroyed all te original paperwork when they “went digital.”. They were trying to claim all there was is what we’ve seen. Now Hawaii says there’s something we haven’t seen. Bit just trust us that it exists.
MSM keeps trying to pass off the COLB as the BC. Two minutes of net research shows that’s bs.
Why not show the BC?
Name change. Parents different. Not born in US (Hawaiian law allows for those born to residents to get BCs even if the birth took place out of the country).
Then there are many here who say the BC is a sideshow. Since Barrack Sr. was a British subject, Zero is not a natural born citizen under the Constitution. Game over. No court will give any American “standing” to get an answer on this issue. When lectures say Obama “has won” these cases that’s what they mean: He spent $2 million+ to NOT show the BC or address any legal challenges. He games the court system to get out early before cases move forward.
It looks like you're referring to the Isikoff story from April 11 that said, "She found the original birth record, properly numbered, half typed and half handwritten, and signed by the doctor who delivered Obama, located in the files." If you look at the Nordyke certificates, you'll notice the only part this is "handwritten" are the signatures and the date of the signatures. This sure isn't half the form. Keep in mind the Nordyke twins were actually born in the hospital Obama claims to have been born in. The hospital would have filed the certificate with the registrar. It's not half-handwritten, so why would Obama's be half-handwritten ... unless he wasn't born in a hospital??
You seem to acknowledge that the COLB at issue was not issued within one year of the claimed birth date and instead go on about Virginia practices and information being kept in computerized databases, which only makes clear that the COLB in question was not issued until years after the claimed date of birth, which concedes the point that it was not issued within one year of the claimed birth date.
Certainly the U. S. Code is the law of the land but it is inferior to the Constitution as the law of the land. It does not override nor determine what is meant by language in the Constitution; it is required to conform to that language. Only an Amendment to the Constitution could change the meaning of a phrase in the Constitution.
By the opinion of the most prominent early Justice of the Supreme Court, John Marshall, the language in question was drawn from Vattel's Law of Nations and means, in the passage from Vattel quoted by Marshall, born here of parents both of whom are U.S. Citizens. That it was the law of nations and not any common law definition that was looked to by the founders was then confirmed by the early Justice who was second only to Marshall in stature, Story. Moreover, the most prominent authority teaching common law in early America, St. George Tucker, in his Blackstone, pointed out in an appendix constitutional intentions of the founders that were based on the Law of Nations, including the one in question. Other such authorities of the time, most notably Daniel Ramsay, gave the same opinion. In short, your position that a congressional enactment overrides and defines a constitutional phrase is not well taken and there is not a shred of legal authority to support such an idea.
Good points.
Same hospital is relevant as well. As I remember there is an issue with the sequencing. The FactCheck document put out on the web to placate the masses has a serial number. Obama was born before the twins. But Obama’s number is higher. Double-check that.
Re: NBC. There’s case law that BOTH parents must be US citizens at the time of birth. No court will consider this issue. Congress won’t consider this issue. They punted it as a “political decision” — likely be size of the heat post Bush/Gore. So there are no checks and balances.
The real BC issue is: Are we a nation of laws? Libs don’t wanted to be hampered or corralled by the Constituion. It’s a document of “negative liberties” precisely to limit the power of government. The Framers knew human nature well.
Of course, were Obama from the right (say Jinal in a few years) this issue would be “revisited” with a far different outcome.
The 9th Circuit considering Orly’s case looks to be simple political cover. They will toss out the suit for “no standing” and never get close to the merits. (Obama nor anyone else has produced the COLB as evidence.)
But the headlines will read: Court Tosses Out Birthers - Nothing to see here. Move along. They may even sanction her.
The powers that be also don’t want Obama removed from office in a Watergate-style scandal. Set the party back. Riots. Shows complicity and corruption of all three branches of government. They are all part of the coverup because of the logical consequences.
The Black Panthers/Holder/Jessie and Al/QuannelX and the rest will push the country into a race war one way or another. Most whites don’t want one, and most blacks don’t want one. But since the left/poverty pimps want one, we’re going to get one, one way or another.
The Right really needs to take the blinders off and be ready when it happens. But then as you correctly point out, it is happening...at a low level now, but it is happening.
That in addition to Federal law is why Hawaii and most every other state is now produces a printed certificate like Obama’s. I know that Obama has an long form on file - all I am saying is that his COLB is considered a legal birth certificate by the state and the Federal government.
You still misunderstand the date issue - the fact that the actual form was printed 40 years after the fact is irrelevant as long as the state formally validated the information on the form. A child born today running for President will not be able to produce a 35 year old original document that looks that looks like the Nordyke birth certificate. It will be a short form document. It may be recently printed. Obama is simply the first.
I am not persuaded by the Vattel argument. I would be more amenable to be persuaded if a conservative legal group or a conservative judge would agree with you.
“It goes to show that the fear baiters/fear hustlers are just using the propaganda that they got as marching orders to put fear in people’s hearts not to address Obama’s eligibility because it would cause race riots/ race tensions... and what that video proved, their argument is bogus, but just more propaganda.”
A lot of this goes back to my belief in ‘the Pussification of the American Male.” Years of “don’t fight back” and “Violence is always wrong” indoctrination from Sesame Street skits to sitcoms to school ciriculum to...well, name it; has taken the fight out of the average person, by design, so they are easily controlled by threat alone.
Completely Pavlovian. But they succeeded. Now anyone with the huevos to ‘fight back’ against anything is demonized as racisthomophobicisabigot...and probably hates puppies.
Thank God there are still quite a few of us that didn’t buy the drama.
Hi James.
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