Posted on 04/11/2011 8:55:58 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
BOSTON - Barack Obama's aunt, Zeituni Onyango, says Donald Trump disrespected her family by questioning the president's birthplace.
Trump quoted Obama's grandmother when she claimed to have witnessed Barack Obama's birth in Kenya, and Onyango says that is not true.....
(Excerpt) Read more at kplctv.com ...
No. That's not the original transcript--that is a printout from the data record that was prepared later.
The original transcript is the one with her Spring 1962 Quarter grades entered on it with the two binder holes and the slot on the binder side.
On the original document, the 9 is in fact really easy to misread--the tail on the bottom of the 9 looks almost all the way up to the zero that makes up the top. But the 8 is just not a possible.
The 24th is a mistype--I wrote the 25th; but even that is not exact because the classes she was in might have started any day that week. Point is that Fall Quarter 1961 didn't start until the last week of September. Some years in that period, classes didn't start until the first week in October. And incidentally, that is the way they do it now--that is still when Fall Quarter starts as far as I know. The Schedule at the University of Washington is four academic quarters of which you attend any three with 15 hours of credit to get a one year credit. The school is generally closed after Summer quarter finals for a couple of weeks for vacation.
I remember each of the days. from 50 years ago? and people think it's odd for people to remember much more significant events from even more recent times? and can testify from personal firsthand observation that the building was locked and you know where the classes were held or even if she was required to attend any classes?
I recognize all that. But I have really already said more about my personal situation that I would really want to say. If I told what happened and why, I might be a little more credible but it would identify me for anyone who wanted to look and I am not going to do that.
The campus was closed and locked down from some point in the afternoon on the 18th until (I believe) the day after Labor Day. The buildings were all locked--you couldn't get in to any of them without a key. At some point the week of the 21st and the week following, there was a library schedule on which the main (Suzulo) Library and the Law Library were open.
I ended this dance with Corsi saying well maybe there were special classes or something. Nonsense. Her transcript is really clear--she registered for Night School class on September 19th just like everybody else who went to Night School fall quarter 1961; she started class the following week; attended enough classes to take the final which she did in December during the normal finals week for Fall Quarter. Just that simple.
I didn't know about the grades. Somewhere in the documents here, her Hawaii grades are revealed--and they were poor. Also, there is a note somewhere which is maybe nothing more than a reflection of loose gossip to the effect that the reason she didn't get into Day School at the U of W was because her grades were so poor.
On the other hand, her grades at the U in 1961-62 were fairly good. That has always been one of the factors that has caused me to wonder if the Ann at the U in 1961-62 was the same person.
The observation (gossip) by the girl who had more than one of the girl classmates dating blacks implied to me that maybe the two pregnant girls with multi racial children were also high school classmates in Seattle as well as having some connection with Hawaii.
Another version of the story is that they were told not to talk about their encounters because Stanley Ann discussed many aspects relating to the Kenyan birth of Obama, and that might be considered inconvenient to Obama’s claimed birth narrative. It’s interesting that any mention of this period has been blocked by Wikipedia. I know they have a lot of radical types at that site, but I never thought that they would block highly corroborated information in order to be politically correct, or whatever.
In Fred's #922: thanks, it’s quite beyond me, I am going to ask David if he can follow this, would a student enrolling for extension courses also have to adhere to the deadline: “Autumn Quarter, 1961 Aug. 1 - Deadline for ALL new students to submit Applications”
And the University's schedule in Brown Deer's #919: From the University of Washington Catalogs 1961-1963: Autumn Quarter, 1961 Aug. 1 - Deadline for ALL new students to submit Applications for Admission with complete credentials. . . .
The problem is, Stanley Ann Dunham Obama did NOT attend either the Autumn or Winter Quarters. She was enrolled in Extension Courses until the Spring of 1962. Extension courses do not always follow the same schedule, therefore dates are shown on a transcript.
Two kinds of "registration"--one is to be accepted as a student; the other is to register as a student to be in a specific class.
Fred's specific question in #922 about whether a student enrolling for extension courses having to adhere to the deadline is really the issue of whether a student enrolling for extension courses need to have filed an enrollment application and thus have been required to file one on August 1, 1961 in Stanley Ann's case.
Answer to that is I don't know.
Recognize that the application for admission process is an extended paperwork exercise. You didn't just show up with a check and tell them you wanted in. They got your graduation data from your high school directly in certified form--together with a certified form of all the classes you took in high school and the grades you got. If you had been to some other college in the period, they got certified data from that institution also.
Point is that the process almost is required to be done by mail. And it would have had, as a matter of necessity to have been initiated more than a couple of weeks before August 1--matter of fact, most students would have done it several months ahead because they wouldn't know if they were going to be accepted.
On the other hand, they did make exceptions to do it at the last minute but they still wanted the certified stuff from the prior institutions which would have had to be done by mail or messenger with receipts. She might have started the process by mail or had her mother do it before August 1.
They got a "Birth Certificate". They gave you a student card which as I recall, at some point, got your picture on it.
I do know that they ran the two (extension and regular day school) as separate colleges. But on the other hand, I knew lots of people who were registered and attending as regular day school students who then took a night school class the next quarter and then were back in day school the following quarter.
And I also know that the extension and Night School were a little looser then than they are now--I know people who decided to work one quarter after they were ready to start day school and were in night school the same week so maybe they had a system permitting people to switch back and forth. I also knew people who were in day school who were also taking a Night School class because they needed that particular class in that quarter and it was offered in Night School and not Day School.
The gossip quoted above was that she couldn't get in to day school because of her grades--so you can assume she applied and was rejected and that would presumably have happened before August 1, 1961; mechanically, how they would have then let her into Night School is not clear to me.
The problem is, Stanley Ann Dunham Obama did NOT attend either the Autumn or Winter Quarters. She was enrolled in Extension Courses until the Spring of 1962. Extension courses do not always follow the same schedule, therefore dates are shown on a transcript.
Given that not just one, but two different classes are entered with starting dates of August 19, and normal fall classes did NOT begin on September 19, Stanley Ann was quite obviously in Seattle on August 19, 1961 as documented by the University of Washington!
That is not correct. In fact, the Night School ran on the same schedule as the Day School. But the days you were there would depend on when the class was held. Five Hour classes in day school were usually held one hour each day; but sometimes, two hours on Tuesday and Thursday and one hour on Wednesday; or two and a half hours etc.
That happened more often in Night School. The five hours class might be held for two and a half or three hours twice a week.
But the term was the same; finals weeks were the same. Sometimes a class would be taught in both day school and night school and there would be only one final at the same time.
They did that so people could pick up required classes that were pre-requisites for some other class while they were going to regular school.
For example, in the Lynnwood Enterprise, Lynnwood, Washington, Wednesday, September 06, 1961 on page 6: "He is attending a two-week seesion of intensive graduate study sponsored by the American Savings & Loan Institue at the University of Washington from Sept. 3-16."
Graduate school is different. There were formal grad school classes that were taught on the regular schedule; but there are also other grad credits you could get outside the schedule--the real key to a grad school degree was getting your thesis topic approved and written and turned in and the oral exam accomplished.
And the old Banker's Association classes were depicted as graduate study but you didn't get any University Credit for those. I don't know about the American S & L Institute.
BOTTOM LINE ON THIS TOPIC: I am going to enter a separate post next on my view of the real bottom line on the issue about the schedule in Seattle.
The essential element of these posts is to address her schedule and location between early July 1961 and October 1, 1961.
In my mind, there is no doubt that she, or someone using her name, was physically present at the U registering for Night School class on September 19; and in class the following week.
There is no certain evidence that she was in Seattle at any point before that. There are individuals who knew her who placed her in Seattle in August, and there is someone who said she was at a Labor Day event in September. There is enough of that to believe that she was in Seattle in that time frame.
If she birthed a child in Mombasa on August 4, what could she have done?
In the first Long Thread, in the spring and summer of 2008, there are extensive copies of the BOAC schedules for that period demonstrating what she could have done.
I knew someone from Seattle who took depositions in Nairobi in periods somewhat later--the way to get back was BOAC from Nairobi to Glaskow Scotland; Glaskow to Vancouver B.C. There was some problem with making connections from Vancouver to Seattle and the way that was resolved was usually that someone drove from Seattle to Vancouver and picked the passenger up.
I was initially concerned that evidence would appear that Stanley Ann made the birth filing on August 8, 1961 in Honolulu with the baby giving a doctor the footprint--and attempting to claim Honolulu home birth. Observe that a birth in Mombasa on August 4 would have occurred during most of the day on August 3 on the West Coast of the US. That would still be a tight schedule. But it could have been done to establish he was born in Honolulu..
That didn't happen.
So I don't have any trouble believing that she could have had a baby, or someone else could have had a baby, in Mombasa on August 4, with Stanley Ann showing up with the baby in Seattle by mid August.
At this point, I think the record is pretty clear that she wasn't in Honolulu at any point after August 4.
The issue above about application for admission to the U of W is a little trickier. Even if she could have applied to Night School later than August 1 (and I am not so sure she could have), I think it is likely she applied for regular admission to the U which means she needed to have had that in process by mail long before August 1.
That’s an interesting thought.
This has always been my experience and I believe that it is a requirement for regional accreditation for U. of WA to directly confirm claims for prior academic attendance from the registrar of previous institutions.
U. of WA obtained certification of SADO’s Mercer and U. of HI transcripts coming in. Then when SADO transferred back to the U. of HI they would confirm the U. of WA transcript.
We have both a photocopy of the physical U. of WA academic record and confirmed Mercer record for SADO and also a computer printout from the U. of WA computer database and a letter from the U of HI registrar all confirming and corroborating that there is only one Stanley Ann Dunham Obama and that she was in WA in the year immediately after Barry's alleged date of birth.
It requires a conspiracy theory to claim that Mercer, U. of HI and U. of WA records in state custody were all corrupted to create a false narrative, a false narrative that would actually support the Dreams narrative that SADO was in HI with BHO Sr at that time.
SADO in WA at the address corroborated between U. of WA and Polk destroys the Dreams narrative and destroys any claims that an phantom “Anna Obama” was in WA in January of 1961.
That doesn't even make sense. Universities don't go to books, look up a printout and then type it back into the computer and print it out again.
You are obviously much younger.
In the period we are talking about, the original entry transcripts were handwritten. They didn't take the card out of the binder when you got your grades for the next quarter, they handwrote them in. The certified transcripts were photocopies of the original with a certificate appended.
So the short answer is yes, they did it that way in 1961.
At some later date, they converted to the computer system they now have in place (somewhere in between, around 1961, they started taking the original entry transcripts out and typing the grades and credits in). I do not know whether they converted all historical records to the new system or only some of them and if the latter, I don't know how they decided which ones to convert.
But I do know (have personal knowledge) about an intervening date at which the copies that were produced were of the original entry documents from the old system.
So the newspaper article from 1961 was nonsense?
Assuming you mean the WND article, yes.
Although, to be fair to Corsi, he does have some excuse.
After I wrote him and pointed out the error to him and explained how it occurred, he then contacted the U of W and got a letter from them attesting to the fact that what they told him was correct and that I was wrong.
By then, I had figured out it probably didn't make any substantive difference so I abandoned the issue.
However fairly recently, someone, I suspect Fred or if not Fred knows who, decided to bury this issue and went to the U and got sufficient access to obtain the letter from the U that Fred references confirming that my version is correct and adopting my explanation for how it occurred as accurate. That letter is posted on this threat and Fred can point out to you where if you want to read it.
Her transcript is really clear--she registered for Night School class on September 19th just like everybody else who went to Night School fall quarter 1961;
no, it clearly says 8/19.
Not really--it says 9/19. Take it from me. Guaranteed.
I came across many other articles about the Washington Huskies football team who were on campus holding regular practices a month before the quarter started.
I have some personal knowledge about that also. Not only did practice start in August but we often played more than one game before school started. In 1960, I believe we were 3 and 0 before classes started.
But 61 was a down year--the team that won the Rose Bowl on January 1, 1961 and January 1, 1960 had graduated. Kermit Jorgensen, a running back in the pros, played quarterback and the Dogs were only 5 and 4 or something.
I had the same experience in junior high! I learned then to take the "news" with a grain of salt. It boggles the mind that so many FReepers would take uncorroborated info from one newspaper article as gospel.
It requires a conspiracy theory to claim that Mercer, U. of HI and U. of WA records in state custody were all corrupted to create a false narrative, a false narrative that would actually support the Dreams narrative that SADO was in HI with BHO Sr at that time.
SADO in WA at the address corroborated between U. of WA and Polk destroys the Dreams narrative and destroys any claims that an phantom “Anna Obama” was in WA in January of 1961.
This is a variation of a debate I have had with Fred off and on over the last year.
I tend to accept the University of Washington records as real evidence of a true record because I have some personal first hand knowledge of where they came from and how they were prepared. The security system is significant and getting in to modify the records or create altered or new records would be very very difficult.
But, that said, you are in a contest with some well financed and well connected individuals with substantial access at the U. I would not say that modifications in the official record might not have been made. I don't think it is likely.
Until evidence to the contrary appears, I would accept the U's original transcript records as evidence that someone using Stanley Ann's name was at the U from September 1961 until June of 1962. I would further accept that record as evidence that Stanley Ann got a High School diploma from Mercer Island High School in 1960; and that someone using her name attended the University of Hawaii with the performance specified.
I also have first hand knowledge about student identification and the Tyee pictures. I am not so sure I regard it as conclusive that the person in question is proven to have been Stanley Ann.
If somebody else turned up with Stanley's driver's license and the registrar's office said they picture didn't look the same, the person might well blow it by by saying she had a new hair do and contact lenses.
A Tyee picture might be helpful but as I recall, those were only taken of entering full time student's in the day school in the fall. So she wouldn't have been there.
Bottom line is that I am not convinced it is beyond doubt that there was more than one woman with a multi racial child in this act; I am not convinced the same woman was at the U and on Capitol Hill throughout the entire relevant period. I do not view it as proven from an evidentiary standpoint, that the woman attending the U throughout the 1961 academic year was in fact Stanley Ann Dunham. Might have been; further evidence may well confirm who was where and what they did; but until you can see the real evidence, you may not be able to figure it out.
Observe also, that if you got into a Court contest with Obama, a judge would order him to give you a footprint to compare with the print on Lucas Smith's certificate--if it matched, the argument would be over; that would be proof the certificate was real and that Obama was born in Mombasa.
If I were going to bet today, I would bet the print will not match.
T-ball was invented in 1961. At least that’s one claim.
If the narrative about Barry being the created-from-conception onward chosen messiah of red-diaper Marxism and a killing rebuke to the mighty white US (and the colonial powers England and The Netherlands) by the Indonesians, Black Muslims and the Mau-Mau, is golden, then his wife and her family are also a big factor. He was picked, she also had to have been picked, as was Valerie Jarrett as the minder.
The strangest thing of all is that every public official plus the MSM is as silent as the tomb about all the stink.
Until Trump.
There was a discussion about T-ball in the past, and the conclusion appeared to be that T-ball was not in Hawaii during the time frame claimed by Abercommie.
Okay, where are your iron clad sources for the date of the Kenyan Obama's arrival in the US? Ping me when you post them, okay?
“There is no certain evidence that she was in Seattle at any point before that. There are individuals who knew her who placed her in Seattle in August, and there is someone who said she was at a Labor Day event in September. There is enough of that to believe that she was in Seattle in that time frame.”
Didn’t someone investigate when “Anna Obama” would have to be at the Capitol Hill address to have been included in the city directory? As I recall, Fred’s got a good handle on the directory notice that’s been published with various articles. Is there a way to figure out the latest date she could have arrived at the Capitol Hill address and been canvassed for the directory listing? Any importance attached to that issue rests of course on the notice that was used being a true one and not another digital creation with no basis in reality. (Only Tony knows for sure.)
Or did she start out living somewhere else?
David, that brings up something else. The “Laurelhurst” name was suggested in various web references. One place was the blog conversation between museum lady Charlette and a poster named Leif. In one of the other references, I recall it being described as a residence hall for pregnant students and somewhere else as an unwed mother’s home. There was yet another explanation for Laurelhurst but it has gone from my memory. Do you know what it really was and if so, does it have any place in this story?
There is information above on this thread on that topic. It appears uncertain when she would have been there to be in the directory.
Or did she start out living somewhere else? David, that brings up something else. The “Laurelhurst” name was suggested in various web references. One place was the blog conversation between museum lady Charlette and a poster named Leif. In one of the other references, I recall it being described as a residence hall for pregnant students and somewhere else as an unwed mother’s home. There was yet another explanation for Laurelhurst but it has gone from my memory. Do you know what it really was and if so, does it have any place in this story?
If the person on Capitol Hill was in fact Stanley Ann, it would not be surprising that she lived somewhere else before she lived on Capitol Hill.
The University maintained "married student's housing" at Laurelhurst in that period and there were kids living there. However the suggestion that Stanley Ann was there is, as far as I know, unsubstantiated.
Thanks, David.
I’ll have to try to find the note I remember about the date versus the directory. I know someone came up with it. Seem to remember it was in August.
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