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To: phi11yguy19
Back to the "shelling" again with you. I have a challenge for you. Name me 3 Northern casualties who were "shelled" by Southern artillery at Sumpter.

First off, learn to spell it. It's "Sumter," not "Sumpter." No one died in the shelling, but it wasn't for lack of southerners trying. I suppose if no one had died at Pearl Harbor, but all the ships were sunk, that would have been no big deal to you, either.

I challenge you again, name me the supreme court ruling validating your claim prior to lincoln declaring his absolute ruling over the matter and waging war? What part of our government structure says disputes over the law can circumvent the judicial process by executive or legislative decree?

Maybe in your extensive readings you've come across this notion, but I'll refresh your memory: The Supreme Court doesn't rule on things that haven't actually come before it. Secession was never legally attempted prior to the War of the Rebellion, so there's no way the court could ever rule on it. (Do you favor the idea of a court that just chooses to speak on issues that interest it, without any actual case?)

What I'll throw back at you is the question of why the south didn't try to use a judicial route. You ask about "disputes under the law," but it's the south that refused that option.

493 posted on 04/18/2011 12:37:56 PM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep
First off, learn to spell it. It's "Sumter," not "Sumpter."

Well there it is. Bubba's managed to evade all the serious issues, but by calling out my typo, he's shown all my points to be pure fallacy! I'd love to list all of Bubba's previous typos to show his points are obviously therefore wrong as well, but I'll grant him for now that he's human and can also make a few keyboard mistakes now and then.

I didn't realize Pearl Harbor was a base on the island of Japan, just as SUMTER was located in the CSA. I also didn't realize that the Japanese had sent delegates to the White House and asked us when we were leaving, and that FDR repeatedly assured their delegates and government that we were on good terms and it would be evacuated asap (all the while getting an army together in anticipation of that "first strike"). Other than that, thanks for yet another mind-blowing, eye-opening analogy!

The Supreme Court doesn't rule on things that haven't actually come before it....

The Supreme Court also doesn't rule on state income tax rates, unicorn permits or lollipop flavors. Ignoring (as you have once again) the fact that secession had been brought to votes in 1812 (which would count as a "legal attempt" though never executed thanks to the ending of the war), I must say I'm very proud of you...

Without realizing it, you just admitted either (a) the S.C. had no business in the issue (explaining why they hadn't heard it before), or (b) that the issue SHOULD HAVE been heard prior to the executive unilaterally waging war over it - BOTH options making Lincoln's acts unconstitutional.

why the south didn't try to use a judicial route

The South acted as they believed it their right per the laws of the land. I guess using your logic, they should've asked Taney if they were allowed to wipe their own a$$es or if that was Lincoln's job too, but I regress. The problem with you're repeated counter-questions instead of answering those posed to you is this:

The Constitution delegated the federal government a list of responsibilities and duties the States voluntarily sacrificed. To make those powers even more clear, they included a 10th Amendment to clarify any power NOT explicitly granted was reserved to the states or the people. To make it even MORE clear, some states reserved the right to break the compact directly in their ratification.

So when the Southern States seceded, they had no reason to doubt their choice was anything but a right reserved by the states or the people (same as slavery at the time). When Lincoln disagreed, it would therefore be his obligation or ANY of the Northern State governors to file charges. Maybe I missed the part where he exhausted that option before opening the gates of hell on the whole country in my sequence a few posts ago, but feel free to insert it where it belongs.
496 posted on 04/18/2011 1:29:17 PM PDT by phi11yguy19
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