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To: BuckeyeTexan
DNA does matter in citizenship claims, just as in paternity claims, when there is a dispute!

If there is no dispute, and both mother and father figure they are the parents, and the State Department doesn't suspect something, then there is no establishment of an actual blood relationship required and the names go on the BC and then they are the “legal” parents, even if later a DNA test shows that the father isn't really the father.

I believe a legitimate argument for two citizen parents AND born in the country could be made, but I am not a proponent.

In natural law, birth allegiance is through either soil or blood. In recognition of this natural law, US law gives citizenship at birth to all born on the soil, and almost all born to U.S. citizen parents. Now the most ironclad, no question about it, “natural born citizen” would meet both requirements - but is it necessary to qualify under both?

Well, in 2008 we had both major parties run candidates who only qualified for US citizenship at birth from ONE of the two categories. McCain only through blood, and 0bama only through place of birth (his mother being too young according to the law at the time).

I think that, as US law contemplates two, and only two - ways of becoming a citizen - that there are correspondingly only two types of US citizenship.

Either one is born a citizen and thus a natural born citizen (IMHO) or one is “naturalized” as a citizen.

As such a “natural born citizen” would be one who, according to natural law (which US law should manifest) was a citizen at birth.

That was my opinion from a long time ago, and have seen no legal reasoning yet that has convinced me otherwise.

But yes, that discussion is a bit tangential to the “Give us the Birth Certificate (Long Form)” argument. And most don't like them mentioned too close to each other because it steals the thunder from the .... “For $20 he could make this all go away” histrionics. Because most birthers have moved on from the BC arguments entirely and now argue that there is no possibility of him being a NBC because of who his father is.

Those people SHOULD like my argument (but probably don't), because even if a US citizen like Malcolm X or Franklin M. Davis are the father, it wouldn't matter because a foreign national was the “legal” father.

114 posted on 01/24/2011 2:51:53 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: allmendream
I believe a legitimate argument for two citizen parents AND born in the country could be made, but I am not a proponent.

Here's a reference in the Foreign Affairs manual that makes me question whether or not a citizen at birth is the equivalent of a natural born citizen.

7 FAM 1131.6-2 Eligibility for Presidency
(TL:CON-68; 04-01-1998)
a. It has never been determined definitively by a court whether a person who acquired U.S. citizenship by birth abroad to U.S. citizens is a natural-born citizen within the meaning of Article II of the Constitution and, therefore, eligible for the Presidency.

b. Section 1, Article II, of the Constitution states, in relevant part that ―No Person except a natural born Citizen...shall be eligible for the Office of President.

c. The Constitution does not define "natural born". The ―Act to establish an Uniform Rule of Naturalizatio, enacted March 26, 1790, (1 Stat. 103,104) provided that, ―...the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born ... out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens: Provided that the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in U.S. Department of State Foreign Affairs Manual Volume 7 - Consular Affairs 7 FAM 1130 Page 9 of 81 the United States.

d. This statute is no longer operative, however, and its formula is not included in modern nationality statutes. In any event, the fact that someone is a natural born citizen pursuant to a statute does not necessarily imply that he or she is such a citizen for Constitutional purposes.

While I tend to agree with the assessment that there are only two types of citizens, those born citizens and those later naturalized, that last statement makes me question whether or not the FF intended a "super-class" (for lack of a better description) of natural born citizens born on American soil to two American citizen parents. About that "super-class", there can be no doubts and no arguments. About all other "classes," one can argue for and against their being natural born citizens.
121 posted on 01/24/2011 3:18:04 PM PST by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind.)
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