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To: dangus
The Ratification of the Conventions of nine States, shall be sufficient for the Establishment of this Constitution between the States so ratifying the Same.

Which brings us to another seeming dilemma.

When the ninth state ratified the Constitution what instantly became the status of the 4 states of the former "perpetual" union under the articles of confederation who had not yet chosen to ratify the same?

338 posted on 09/08/2010 1:56:29 PM PDT by Bigun ("It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." Voltaire)
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To: Bigun
When the ninth state ratified the Constitution what instantly became the status of the 4 states of the former "perpetual" union under the articles of confederation who had not yet chosen to ratify the same?

Not a dilemma at all. It would be a Union consisting of 9 states: "shall be sufficient for the Establishment of this Constitution between the States so ratifying the Same."

The status of the other 4, would be that they were not members of the Union until they ratified.

Which they did, and thereby became states. There's no "dilemma" about it.

342 posted on 09/08/2010 2:34:29 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: Bigun
>>When the ninth state ratified the Constitution what instantly became the status of the 4 states of the former "perpetual" union under the articles of confederation who had not yet chosen to ratify the same? << Oh, thanks! You just provided the clue by which I learned of a new proof of the absence of the right of secession:
Every State shall abide by the determination of the United States in Congress assembled, on all questions which by this confederation are submitted to them. And the Articles of this Confederation shall be inviolably observed by every State, and the Union shall be perpetual;
The Articles of Confederation were never rescinded! Had a state not ever ratified the Constitution, I guess they would still be bound by the much more limited laws of the Articles of Confederation. Indeed, the Articles remained in force until not only was the Constitution ratified by the 9th state, but until it was ratified by the 13th state! A biennial Congress under the Articles of Confederation remained in session until 1790, by which time not just eight, but 11 states had ratified the Constitution, and by which time the new Constitutional Congress had already met! By the next scheduled A of C Congress, all 13 states had ratified the Constitution, so the Constitution's Congress could serve as A of C Congress! (I didn't even realize this!)

So, even under the theory that nothing in the Constitution separately prevented secession, the Constitution was passed under the laws of the Articles of Confederation, including the prohibition against dissolving the Articles of Confederation or seceding from them.

But wait, didn't Adams and Madison argue against the perpetuity of the Articles of Confederation? Yeah, they lost.

344 posted on 09/08/2010 2:44:46 PM PDT by dangus
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To: Bigun
When the ninth state ratified the Constitution what instantly became the status of the 4 states of the former "perpetual" union under the articles of confederation who had not yet chosen to ratify the same?

They were states in the United States. The United States predated the Constitution. Changing from the Articles of Confederation to the Constitution did eliminate the United States. It merely replaced one form of government with another.

What did you think happened to them?

353 posted on 09/08/2010 3:48:14 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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