A picker and chooser of what part of the Bible they will follow and so there is little need for us to carry on this discussion. The Old Testament is included in the Bible as it still has relevance and much of it still needs to be followed. Do we not follow the Ten Commandments merely because they are in the Old Testament?
I am a believer in the whole Bible and do not have the audacity to pick what I will follow and won’t.
As far as I am concern we have nothing more to discuss.
Hello Kartographer -
You said in your reply to me
>A picker and chooser of what part of the Bible they will
>follow and so there is little need for us to carry on
>this discussion. The Old Testament is included in the Bible
>as it still has relevance and much of it still needs to be
>followed. Do we not follow the Ten Commandments merely because
>they are in the Old Testament?
>I am a believer in the whole Bible and do not have the audacity
>to pick what I will follow and won’t.
>As far as I am concern we have nothing more to discuss.
Indeed, you are right in that the Old Testament is there for our edification and instruction, as it says in the New Testament ...
All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
... and the LORD Himself said that there is no contradiction in His holy Word ...
If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken …
John 10:35
... then there should be Old Testament precedence for what I am saying about loving your enemies, submitting to authority, and not rebelling against lawful government, and even interceding for rulers, correct?
Let's begin:
[Is it fit] to say to a king, [Thou art] wicked? [and] to princes, [Ye are] ungodly? [How much less to him] that accepts not the persons of princes, neither regards the rich more than the poor? For they all [are] the work of his hands.
Job 34:18-19
Here in Job 34 we see that Elihu, who after speaking was not rebuked of God unlike Job's other friends, is asking rhetorically since we should not insult those who rule over us, how much less do we insult God? He takes it for granted that we don't insult our rulers, to which Solomon in his wisdom agrees ...
Curse not the king, no not in thy thought; and curse not the rich in thy bedchamber: for a bird of the air shall carry the voice, and that which hath wings shall tell the matter.
Ecclesiastes 10:20
... and actually this originates in the Law of Moses itself, where we are told not to curse neither God, those who rule ...
You shall not revile God, nor curse the ruler of thy people.
Exodus 22:28
... and we see what those who cursed the crowned King Saul were called ...
… children of Belial said, How shall this man save us? And they despised him, and brought him no presents. But he held his peace.
1 Samuel 10:27
... but the Law of Moses goes on to tell us even more about our conduct towards the treasonous in our midst ...
You shall not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but you shall love thy neighbor as thyself: I [am] the LORD.
Leviticus 19:18
To me [belongs] vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in [due] time: for the day of their calamity [is] at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.
Deuteronomy 32:35
... where David a "man after God's heart" said of his enemy Saul who sought David's life ...
Ye daughters of Israel, weep over Saul, who clothed you in scarlet, with [other] delights, who put on ornaments of gold upon your apparel.
2 Samuel 1:24
... and the prophet Samuel was grieved over King Saul's disobedience towards the LORD ...
It repents me that I have set up Saul [to be] king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the LORD all night.
1 Samuel 15:11
... and "cried unto the LORD all night" in intercession for Saul to God.
Now you might say, "But Obama is ungodly. We can't obey Obama and the Democrats when they want to take away our guns." Here again, we have an Old Testament precedence for obedience and submission ...
I spoke also to Zedekiah king of Judah according to all these words, saying, Bring your necks under the yoke of the king of Babylon, and serve him and his people, and live. Why will ye die, you and your people, by the sword, by the famine, and by the pestilence, as the LORD has spoken against the nation that will not serve the king of Babylon?
JEREMIAH 27:12-13
(there are many verses that say something similar to this)
No matter how many other Christians or Conservatives or Tea Partiers or "Pastors" or "leaders" fall into the trap of rebelling against rule by Obama and Democrats ordained by God ...
That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till you know that the most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomsoever he will.
DANIEL 4:25
... we are not to follow them into rebellion ...
For rebellion [is as] the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness [is as] iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD ...
1 Samuel 15:23
... and we don't follow such “Pastors” or Conservatives into cursing our leaders ...
You shall not follow a multitude to [do] evil; neither shall you speak in a cause to decline after many to wrest [judgment]:
Exodus 23:2
To summarize how the Old Testament calls us to love, curse not with words Obama or the Democrats, curse not even in thought Obama or the Democrats, but rather to bless them and pray for them:
|
Job 34:18-19 |
Don't call the king wicked |
|
Ecclesiastes 10:20 |
Don't curse the king even in your thoughts |
|
Exodus 22:28 |
Don't curse the ruler of your people |
|
Jeremiah 27:12-13 |
Serve the heathen king of Babylon, and live |
|
1 Samuel 10:27 |
Despisers of the king are called, "children of Belial" |
|
Leviticus 19:18 |
Love your neighbors |
|
2 Samuel 1:24 |
King David, a man after God’s heart, urges tears be shed for Saul, his enemy who wanted him dead |
|
1 Samuel 15:11 |
Samuel the Prophet intercedes for backslidden King Saul |
|
Daniel 4:25 |
God picks our leaders |
|
Exodus 23:2 |
Follow God, not an evil mob |
It goes without saying that the New Testament echoes all these precepts, which your pastor has not taught you is how you should conduct yourself:
|
Job 34:18-19 |
Romans 13:7 |
|
Ecclesiastes 10:20 |
Romans 13:7 |
|
Exodus 22:28 |
Romans 13:7 |
|
Jeremiah 27:12-13 |
1 Peter 2:13 |
|
1 Samuel 10:27 |
2 Peter 2:10, Jude 1:8 |
|
Leviticus 19:18 |
Matthew 22:39 |
|
2 Samuel 1:24 |
Matthew 5:44 |
|
1 Samuel 15:11 |
1 Timothy 1:1-4 |
|
Daniel 4:25 |
Romans 13:1 |
|
Exodus 23:2 |
Matthew 7:13 |
If after seeing the same case I already made in the New Testament for loving and praying for your enemies, made in the Old Testament, you want to pick up arms against the clear counsel of Jesus our LORD, who said in Luke 22:36-37, "he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one" because "this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, 'And he was reckoned among the transgressors' ".
Jesus wanted them to buy swords, so scripture could be fulfilled when Jesus would be "reckoned among the transgressors" when his disciples wielded swords and made themselves "transgressors" for Jesus to be "reckoned among the transgressors." Again, classic commentaries by Christians far better than you or me agree with what I am saying, and they were hardly "pick and choose" cafeteria Christians.
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/henry/mhc5.Luke.xxiii.html
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/jamieson/jfb.xi.iii.xxiii.html
If this error you have been inadvertently deceived into propagating is to be believed, then Matthew Henry was a "pick and choose" Christian? Jamieson, Faucett, and Brown were cafeteria Christians?
Furthermore, we have no enemies in the flesh any more. In the Old Covenant, the enemies of God’s people Israel were evil peoples like the Hivites, Canaanites, and Hitties that were to be driven out. King Saul was charged by God to specifically wipe out the Amalekites down to the last infant. Do you, Kartographer, have an anointed command like this from God directly, or from a reliable prophet to do this to Obama and the Democrats, or are you unforgiving, and hate-filled?
You would be much wiser to repent, and forgive, and use your Christ-given authority to bind your true enemies …
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].
Ephesians 6:12
Obama and the Democrats are flesh and blood, and are therefore not your enemies. They are unsaved heathen, under the control of demons and/or fallen angels. They need your prayers, or they will die and go to hell, and continue to destroy this country until they do.
A Christian revival is the only way out for the USA.
Your guns and skills as hunters won't save you from death and hell, because we don't live in sword swinging Old Testament times any more ...
When God speaks of a “new” covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear.
Hebrews 8:13
You Kartographer, are insisting that I am, and you are not, "A picker and chooser of what part of the Bible they will follow."
Let's test this "whole Bible" "Christianity" you are inadvertently promoting in your ungodly hatred of Obama and the Democrats:
1) Do you never work on Saturdays per Exodus 20:10 under pain of death per LEVITICUS 15:25?
2) Do you sacrifice male cattle without blemish to the LORD per LEVITICUS 1:3?
3) Got any extra wives per Exodus 21:10?
4) Do you stone adulteresses?
5) Ever sleep with a woman you did not marry per EXODUS 22:16?
6) Do you kill witches per EXODUS 22:18?
7) Get circumcised per LEVITICUS 12:3?
8) Keep the 3 feasts of EXODUS 23:14?
9) Have you ever made a "sin offering" per EXODUS 29:14, or was Jesus offered "once" per HEBREWS 7:27?
10) Has the LORD GOD commanded you to drive out Obama and the Democrats the way he charged Israel to drive out the Hivites, Canaanites, and Hittites per EXODUS 23:28? Has the LORD GOD commanded you to kill government agents that want your guns, and Democrats, and Obama the way he commanded King Saul in 1 Samuel 15:3 to kill the Amalekites down to the last infant?
... all the above begs the obvious question: What did the New Covenant change?
I suggest you re-read Romans 8, and Colossians 2, and Luke 9:54-56, and then re-read your New Testament to remember why you became a Christian in the first place.
The LORD showed us himself that under this New Covenant, we don't even stone adulterers like we did under the Old Covenant ...
And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what say you? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with [his] finger wrote on the ground, [as though he heard them not]. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard [it], being convicted by [their own] conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, [even] unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, ”Woman, where are those your accusers? Has no man condemned you?” She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, “Neither do I condemn you: go, and sin no more.”
John 8:3-11
Finally, if you take up arms against the government, you invite invasion from China/Russia/etc. They would be FOOLS not to take advantage of your rebellion.
They are not fools. I guarantee it. They probably even have people shilling here about the need for “patriots” to take up arms against Obama and the Democrats. China/Russia/friends have all the interest in the world in stirring up and duping the people of the USA into Civil War 2, which makes invasion by them so very much easier.
To be laborious and to repeat myself again: Rebellion a.k.a. Civil War 2 signs the USA’s death certificate, when rebels hate and rebel instead of praying for their enemies, like Jesus said we should in Matthew 5:44.
Does God not answer prayer? Read my profile for a study on how to pray and get answered by God if you are a Christian.
There is still time to turn from this path of error, and to love and pray for them our enemies that hate us, and to weep for our sins, turn from them, and to call our churches to pray EARNESTLY for revival, and for our leaders, and for the unsaved.
If you think Russia and China aren’t licking their chops over your sinful rebellion making their invasion plans WAY easier, may I remind you of the following:
1) Chinese sub goes undetected until it surfaces in the middle of a US Carrier group in 2006.
2) Our carriers are routinely “sunk” in exercises against Diesel-Electric subs.
3) Russian bombers testing our defenses in 2008, 2010, and 2013.
4) Russian submarines detected in the Gulf of Mexico in 2012, off the east coast in 2009, and off the East Coast in 2012.
… and that’s just the stuff I found in a few minutes of searching. Who knows how many incidents DON’T go reported.
Let’s love Jesus, by obeying Him.
And why call all of you to me, “Lord, Lord”, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever comes to me, and hears my sayings, and does them, I will show you to whom he is like, He is like a man which built an house, and dug deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that hears, and does not, is like a man that without a foundation built a house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
LUKE 6:46
The false doctrine of “Eternal Security” is a lie. It is a.k.a. “fire insurance”, a.k.a. “easy believe-ism”, a.k.a. “sin all you want, and still go to heaven”. If it was true, is George Sodini who killed 4 people and then died, in heaven now? Don’t bet your eternal destiny on it.
Turn from your rebellion, and live, and pray for a restoration of holiness in the USA church, and for wisdom and patriotism in the United States government.
Otherwise, Civil War II is coming, and will grow until an unstoppable invasion by China/Russia/etc will destroy the USA.
Best Regards,
- ROTB