Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

To: EnderWiggins

You see? There you are forgetting that I read and speak French.

For “naturel” to have any chance of meaning “native,” it would have to be used as an adjective, not a noun. In the context of what Vattel is saying, “naturel” is being used as a noun.

Now, if we play your game and say that “naturel” means native, then there is no reason at all for Vattel to use indigènes in the following sentence:

Chapter XIX, § 212

“Les naturels, ou indigènes, sont ceux qui sont nes dans le pays de parents citoyens.”

Because, if we were to play your game, the above sentence would erroneously translate out as more than a little repetitive:

“The natives, or natives, are those born in the country of citizen parents.”

Hence, there is most certainly a distinction to be made between the word “naturels” and and the word “indigènes.”

In fact, if you actually read the English version of Vattel, you will notice that it DOES translate “naturel” into “natural-born,” but flips the word order:

http://www.constitution.org/vattel/vattel_01.htm

Chapter XIX, § 212:

“The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens...”

So, what is it? Is “naturels” native? Or, is it more accurately translated to natural-born? If it is “native,” then when did “indigènes” become a better replacement for “natural-born” when translating?

Your whole thesis relies on a mistranslation of the title for Chapter XIX, § 212, but that does nothing to change the meaning of the actual text contained within that section, which still translates out (insert either word here) to “natural-born.”

Cheers


312 posted on 02/12/2010 7:52:57 PM PST by DoctorBulldog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 257 | View Replies ]


To: DoctorBulldog
"Hence, there is most certainly a distinction to be made between the word 'naturels' and and the word 'indigènes.'"

Again, I commend you for being bilingual. But your reasoning is rather patently in error.

If de Vattel intended a distinction to be made between "naturels" and "indigènes" why did he provide only one definition for both?

In point of fact, he defined them as meaning exactly the same thing. And as such, yes, "The natives, or natives, are those born in the country of citizen parents." Would be a correct (if clumsy) translation of the phrase.

That's why they are called synonyms.
382 posted on 02/13/2010 2:48:57 PM PST by EnderWiggins
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 312 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson