Posted on 11/10/2009 11:55:00 AM PST by B-Chan
Then you make the statement that all men are the children of God. Well that is contrary to what the bible teaches, number one, and number two, why are you advocating chopping off God's childrens' heads if that were true, or even if you believe it to be true?
We've had the Catholic Church in charge of schools, orphanages,and little children in the past, and are only now realizing the depths of depravity, abuse and psychological damage that was inflicted on these innocents, and now you advocate a return to that system.
This is a very theologically muddled opinion piece, not fit for Free Republic.
Yes, someday, somewhere.
...and all those who do not convert will have their heads chopped off.
Huh? I never said that. I'm against killing anyone except in defense of self, innocents, or nation. And converting people by force isn't on my agenda either.
If you read what I wrote again, you'll see that I'm in favor of Catholic monarchy, but that I'm against doing anything to create one. Politics are a sucker's game. Instead of trying to overthrow the existing world order (which is something Christians are forbidden to do anyway), we monarchists need only bide our time. The inevitable collapse of the current world political and economic system will lead to a period of anarchy, out of which will rise a system of ethnic tribal warlords, among which some will be Catholic. These Catholic warlords will in time become kings.
What if the Heavenly Father has a different plan?
I can't find a reenactment 'second' crusade foretold in our future. The next 'crusade' is going to be led by Christ Himself when He returns with that double edged sword for a harvest.
Course there is to be an appearance of a very short lived 'crusade' that all but the 'elect' will believe is the real thing.
Thank you for correcting this ,dear PWT.I appreciate the respectful manner in how you have conducted yourself in this debate
It would do you well to read the testimony of Edgar Mortara himself from the Beautification process of Pius IX
http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/pope025501.htm
Excerpt
§1656: The parents made a great effort to have their child again.
Edgar Mortara response-Eight days later, my parents presented themselves to the Institute of Neophytes to initiate the complex procedures to get me back in the family. As they had complete freedom to see me and talk with me, they remained in Rome for a month, coming every day to visit me. Needless to say, they tried every means to get me back — caresses, tears, pleas and promises. Despite all this, I never showed the slightest desire to return to my family, a fact which I do not understand myself, except by looking at the power of supernatural grace.
At this point, I will tell a story that shows the power of this grace. After serving Mass in Alatri for Canon Vincenzo Sarra (in whose home I was staying), upon returning to the sacristry with the priest, my parents suddenly appeared at the door. Instead of throwing myself in their arms, as would have been natural, I retreated, quite surprised, hiding under the priest's chasuble. Because of this event, the people of Alatri were incensed at my parents, and the bishop thought it best to host me in his palace for eight days and also to avoid abduction by my parents. They became convinced of the uselessness of their efforts and thought it more prudent to return to Bologna.
Here is another good account of this
http://www.secondexodus.com/html/jewishcatholicdialogue/mortara.htm
I wish you a blessed day!
Then why are you trolling a site explicitly dedicated to it?
Behold the whore of the Reformation.
As usual,dear sister,you have little understanding of Catholicism and GK Chesterton due to being blinded by disdain of the Catholic Church
The majority of true conservatives applaud Chesterton,even Ronald Reagan used to quote him because HE WAS AGAINST BIG GOVERNMENT AND BIG CORPORATIONS
More from GK Chesterton...
“A citizen can hardly distinguish between a tax and a fine, except that the fine is generally much lighter,” and “Too much capitalism does not mean too many capitalists, but too few capitalists.”
“If capitalism means private property, I am capitalist. If capitalism means capital, everybody is capitalist. But if capitalism means this particular condition of capital, only paid out to the mass in the form of wages, then it does mean something, even if it ought to mean something else.
“The truth is that what we call Capitalism ought to be called Proletarianism. The point of it is not that some people have capital, but that most people only have wages because they do not have capital.”
Mortara's words (from your excerpt) look like the attempt by someone, much later in life, to come to terms with their early past. Does his testimony reveal the workings of God's grace, or is it an attempt to make sense of faint memories from almost 50 years in his past? Who in this veil of tears can know with certainty?
However, in his recounting Mortara fails to acknowledge the fact that, after being kidnapped he was not returned to his parents due to the obstinancy of Pius IX, who could have returned little Edgar to his parents if he had willed it, and not due to his sudden and unexplainable reticence around his mother and father. That's quite a mis-remembering of events!
Thus, I don't think it probable that God's Grace was operative here in any significant sense: merely the wills of men who saw fit to use the vagaries of canon law and their own power to grab a child from his parents. Parents whose only "offense," as far as I can see, is that they were Jews who had not the wherewithall to save their child from the wolves who had snatched little Edgar from their home.
Once again, I ask you to respond to my question about your seeming reliance upon an "ends justifies the means" morality to justify Pius IX's command to kidnap 6-year-old Edgar. A defense which seems to go against the grain of what I took to be RC moral teaching. Why the silence?
Why the continued defense of those who denied relief to "him that hath no helper"?
"Troubled teen" is more like it.
Edgar Mortara obviously disagrees with you and so do I,dear friend
You psychoanalyze it all you want,God's ways are not always our ways.
Thanks for the conversation
You're a '98er, as I am. Surely you have noticed as this site has gone from being a public relations front for the GOP and Limbaugh Liberalism to being a place where true Conservative ideas can be discussed. Progress is being made! Every day, more and more Freepers are being liberated from the smothering grasp of the Two-Party Illusion and are becoming able to see the true nature of the conflict in which we are engaged. Are you suggesting we go back to shilling for the Bush family and Wall Street?
Tough times are coming! If Leftist, secular tyranny is to be defeated, we must have a cadre of dedicated traditional Conservatives to educate their friends and neighbors. I see my own small efforts to combat the fake conservatism of the Republican/Big Business axis of evil as a tool to help create that cadre. Why don't you help me instead of continuing to cast your support for the CINOs and corporate pirates who have deceived the American people for so long? Why not push for real Conservatism instead of promoting the ideas of the humanistic Enlightenment that have brought us to the sorry state we inhabit today?
No King but Jesus!
The words you quoted from Montara's statement do not address the questions I have been asking. Not obvious at all.
You psychoanalyze it all you want,God's ways are not always our ways.
No psychoanalsis on my part, just criticism of your quote based upon relevant facts that Mortara left out.
God's ways are God's ways. The ways of the Holy Office are the ways of the Holy Office. What significant connection there may exist between the two is open to debate. Once again, I find it surprising that you believe that forced baptism and kidnapping are part of God's way. What next -- Murder? Deceit? Pogroms? If the end justifies the means, what becomes to our adherence to God's Law? It seems as if you are more concerned to express obedience to the Holy See than to follow the Decalogue or the Gospels.
Thanks for the conversation
Not much of a conversation!
You haven't answered my questions.
Nor have you come to terms with what happened to Edgar Mortara when he was 6 years old, nor the wretched treatment visited upon his parents by the RC community both at the time of his abduction and later.
It is obviously a dispute I do not understand.
Sorry to interject.
Because I took an oath to uphold the Republic and its Constitution, have never been released therefrom, and take it seriously. Do not offend me again by implying that breaking my oath is even an option.
Speak for yourself.
One wonders how Pius defended himself when he found himself before the throne of Christ, having kidnapped Him ("As You Have Done Unto the Least of These, You Have Done Unto Me.")
There's no "dispute," really.
Capital "C" = Roman Catholic church.
Small "c" = universal, such as the universal Christian faith.
The problem lately is that certain RCs on this forum simply want to call themselves "Catholic."
I don't care what they want to call themselves. It's just one more error in a big pile of errors.
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