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To: arrogantsob

“”BTW that “sovereignty” Madison mentions was ONLY in relation to the ratification. It could not be coerced by another state. And there was no other mechanism available for the expression of the political will EXCEPT through state mechanisms.

But Congress was clear that it wanted the decision taken OUT of the hands of the states. It specified special conventions out of the control of state governments.””

Madison helped write the “DECLARATION AND PROTEST”

FIRST INAUGURAL ADDRESS, March 4, 1801
If there be any among us who would wish to dissolve this Union, or to change its republican form, let them stand, undisturbed, as monuments of the safety with which error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it~ Thomas Jefferson

DECLARATION AND PROTEST OF THE COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA
The States of North America which confederated to establish their independence of the government of Great Britain, of which Virginia was one, became, on that acquisition free and independent States, and as such, authorized to constitute governments, each for itself, in such form as it thought best.

They entered into a compact (which is called the Constitution of the United States of America), by which they agreed to unite in a single government as to their relations with each other, and with foreign nations, and as to certain other articles particularly specified. They retained at the same time, each to itself, the other rights of independent government, comprehending mainly their domestic interests.~Thomas Jefferson

Thomas Jefferson, a Democratic-Republican and staunch advocate of democracy, and believing that the Union was a group of sovereign States that had carefully delegated specific powers to an administrative agent, stated his view of States’ rights within the Union as follows, “My plan would be to make the states one as to everything connected with foreign nations, and several as to everything purely domestic”

Prior to ratifying the new constitution, the State of Massachusetts insisted “that it be explicitly declared, that all powers not delegated by the aforesaid Constitution are reserved to the several States, to be by them exercised.”

Pennsylvania likewise insisted that the new constitution be amended to include language guaranteeing that “[a]ll the rights of sovereignty which are not, by the said Constitution, expressly and plainly vested in the Congress, shall be deemed to remain with, and shall be exercised by the several states in the Union.”

James Madison, “the father of the Constitution,” expressed his view of the proposed new government and the sovereign status of the States as they ratified the new constitution when he stated,

“In order to ascertain the real character of the government, it may be considered in relation to the foundation on which it is to be established; to the sources from which its ordinary powers are to be drawn; to the operation of those powers; to the extent of them; and to the authority by which future changes in the government are to be introduced.

“On examining the first relation, it appears, on one hand, that the Constitution is to be founded on the assent and ratification of the people of America, given by deputies elected for the special purpose; but, on the other, that this assent and ratification is to be given by the people, not as individuals composing one entire nation, but as composing the distinct and independent States to which they respectively belong. It is to be the assent and ratification of the several States, derived from the supreme authority in each State, the authority of the people themselves. The act, therefore, establishing the Constitution, will not be a NATIONAL, but a FEDERAL act.

“That it will be a federal and not a national act, as these terms are understood by the objectors; the act of the people, as forming so many independent States, not as forming one aggregate nation [...] Each State, in ratifying the Constitution, is considered as a sovereign body, independent of all others, and only to be bound by its voluntary act” (James Madison, Federalist Papers, Number 39).


51 posted on 02/12/2009 2:17:55 PM PST by Idabilly
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To: Idabilly

Madison explained in the Federalist that the new government was both federal and national. It was a combination something new like so much else in it.

None of the Founders wanted a tyrannic government controlling all elements of life. Nor did they foresee how extensive its powers would become.

But the excessive democratization which followed allowed more popular control and move to the Left. Without taking votes away from women I don’t see it moving back. And property restrictions on votes regarding taxation is similiar.

Voters have wanted the feds to ammume more power and that is what has happened. But world events also pushed things in that direction.

Until they change the government won’t.


60 posted on 02/14/2009 9:50:43 PM PST by arrogantsob
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