Posted on 01/14/2009 1:43:01 PM PST by rxsid
He should have produced the birth certificate immediately, as McCain did.
However, this is not about Obama. If he produces a valid B.C. to the court, we still have a problem, as no one is vetting candidates and no one agrees on the definition of natural born.
Obama raises my suspicion with his unwillingness to do as McCain did, combined with his many sealed records and his showing the birth documnent on-line but not submitting it in response to these suits. I would feel the same way about ANY president-elect. There is one standard for all, in my book.
Bronxboy wrote: We don’t like Obama, but over 50 % of Americans do like him...financial markets in turmoil, perhaps huge demonstrations. It would be a nightmare.
How far will you go with this argument? Exactly at what point are we to say no to the threat of “huge demonstrations”? Maybe they want your house or they will demonstrate. Maybe they want your taxes to go to 99% of all income or they will demonstrate?
Further, that is not a valid way for the Supremes to conduct themselves, in my opinion. They are there to make the tough decisions.
It is about time that people with this opinion realize that THE REST OF US are getting mighty sick of being told that we must appease some phantom mob and let the Constitution, our rights, etc., slide in order to keep the peace.
Common sense tells me that those of us who generally are not considered a “mob” or a cause of unrest would be a MUCH MORE FORMIDABLE adversary were we ever to really get our hackles up about this nonsense!
Perhaps we will one day take a strong stand against this threatened lawlessness and demands that we give in to the phantom mob. We would have far more staying power than the undisciplined mob, though we would likely express ourselves in a different manner than the mob. Further, our group would be far, far larger than any marauding mob you could threaten us with.
One standard for all. If the mob doesn’t like it, too bad!
I don’t believe the birth certificate issue is important enough...I have seen no evidence that supports the notion that Obama was born anywhere but Hawaii. I don’t buy the two parents must be citizens or the Mother’s age etc.
If I though there was a true danger to the constitution, full speed ahead damn the consequences. However, I think the opposite is true...it is unconstitutional to overturn and election. Much as we dislike Obama, he was elected. One of the things I admire so much about this country is the peaceful transfer of power...this is worth preserving. I also believe if the Supremes did such a thing, the conservatives and the GOP would be finished. Rather than putting up with Obama for hopefully four years, we would have Dems in complete control for decades.
He does not have to produce anything...the court cases were all dismissed. We may disagree, but this is a fact.
The natural born issue has never been mentioned on this board before Obama was elected...there is no constitutional issue here, but rather a refusal to accept the election results. I believe as do most that if you are born on this soil,you are a natural born American. I can not imagine the mess with people endlessly in courts if some arbitrary standard was established...we can get through Obama’s tenure-no need to turn the constitution on it’s head in order to overturn an election...not a good idea.
You are wrong that my concern reflects a refusal to accept election results. I was unaware that there was no vetting of presidential candidates until this issue was raised. Further, Obama’s international upbringing makes these questions reasonable, just as they were for John McCain. We should be able to discuss these issues as adults and in an intellectually honest way.
You are free to believe anything you want about who or what is a natural-born citizen. I am sure you are aware that Congress passed a bill naming McCain natural born. I was disgusted by that, and that was even before I heard about this issue involving Obama. Further, a few years ago I heard that Orrin Hatch wanted to change the law to accommodate Arnold, which I found beyond outrageous. This issue is properly settled by the Supreme Court, not by the craven politicians or this mob that you like to refer to.
If you plan to only make false accusations, I am not really interested in dicussing the issue with you, Bronxboy. I have always lived in Massachusetts and so I am fully accustomed to one-party Democratic rule, as we now have in Washington. I don’t vote for them, but they run this state (into the ground). I am hardly in a panic over Obama. He is just more of what we have in every office here.
I was not accusing you of anything. Maybe at some future date natural born will be defined by Congress or the courts. But it isn’t right now. Perhaps you were not aware of this issue before the election, but it was already in the courts. Now, it’s a done deal as far as I am concerned. Do you think the courts or congress will pass a law and retroactively and apply it to the 2008 election?
It is my opinion that a child born on this soil should be a natural born citizen. Europe has a confusing system for establishing citizenship and it does not work well. I don’t want that.
I was not pointing fingers at you and meant no disrespect...but many on this forum do want to overturn the election...if it is proven Obama was born in Hawaii, then they will move on to the other stuff I am against that and believe it would be overturning an election...the voters have spoken. It’s done.
I would be interested to know what you think should happen now four days before the inauguration-not what you think should have happened before the election...water under the bridge.
I also think that Berg is a scammer...he is getting donations you know. He believes that both Bush and Cheney knew about 9-11 in advance and should be prosecuted-no credibility. I think the gullible are being separated from their money and that’s a damn shame. The people involved in the birth certificate issue are only interested in protecting the constitution. I don’t agree with them but don’t like to see anyone conned by Berg or ‘Ed’ who keep requesting money.
Yes, it is a strange day when Freepers hitch their Wagon to a 9/11 Truther Donkey.
The first thing you need to do is to define natural born citizen and so far it has not been defined by the Constitution, Legislation or Case Law.
BTW-What is you definition of natural born citizen?
I do not have a definition. This is the job of the Supreme Court, not me, not you, and not Congress.
After reviewing your responses in recent past threads, someone needs to say to you GOOD DAY, sir...good day.
It would appear that the SCOTUS has been too busy over the last two months to worry about such matters.
I believe that if Obama is found not to be a natural born citizen he cannot remain as the president. These suits have been going on for some time (although I was not aware of them until recently) and he should have responded earlier. It is nobody’s fault but his own, as he stonewalled and refused to simply show documents, as McCain did.
As I have said before, go after Obama on his associations and his policies to hope that the SCOTUS overturns the election is pure fantasy.
I don’t know anything about Mr. Berg, although I have read about his views on 9/11 on this board. It doesn’t matter to me what other opinions he holds or anything else. We have certain Constitutional requirements for the presidency, and that is all that matters.
Most Americans are reasonable enough that they would realize what has happened here were Obama to actually be found ineligible. Frankly, I don’t have a stake in him being declared ineligible. As I’ve said before, I would view ANY candidate in the same way in this situation. One standard. Too bad for the mob. We must be able do discuss this as adults and in an intellectually honest fashion.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. And to the Republic, for which it stands, One Nation, under GOD, indivisible, with liberty and JUSTICE for all.
You let him get away with it, but leave other AMERICANS...your fellow Americans, not Russians, not North Koreans, but your fellow Americans...alone while we pursue what we believe to be truth.
Make fun of Putin, make fun of Castro...but leave your own people alone to pursue without consternation from within.
It would appear that the SCOTUS has been too busy over the last two months to worry about such matters.
And that means what? Don’t expect an answer from me, as I will be leaving the board for the evening. I have my views and you have yours. Frankly, I am right that our standards for eligiblity must be upheld, no matter what. If you don’t agree, that doesn’t bother me. It bothers you quite a bit that some of us don’t agree with you.
It does not seem that too many Americans or members of the Electoral College, Members of the House and Senate or the SCOTUS are all that interested in the theory that Obama is not eligible to be president.
Yes, without question the eligibility requirements for the Office of the President must be upheld.
However, you will need to prove that Obama is not IN FACT Eligible.
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