Before you leave I was wondering if we might take up an offering for a set of encyclopedias or just a copy of Josephus's works to be sent to the Vatican Library, perhaps in the name of the late Father Willaim G. Most, who seems to have never had access to them.
My .37 cents is on its way! Good idea, Chip!
Therefore....this will be my last post.....just to clear the slate of all silliness.
So, Mary traveling ON FOOT, ALONE, INTO THE MOUNTAINS to visit Elizabeth is more plausible to you? (During the month of December......rather than riding on the back of a donkey during the month of September)
First of all....and bear in mind, Uncle Chip, this is not being directly pointed at you.......Mary was a young, healthy Hebrew girl, who was most assuredly used to walking where ever she went. The point in time of her visit to Elizabeth transpired directly after her being informed [Luke 1:39] that she was to bear The Son of God [Luke 1:26-38]. The town in Judea (verse 39) was not mentioned, other than the fact it was in the hill country. From Nazareth to Bethlehem it is about 55 miles....as the crow flies so the trip to the home of Zechariah and Elizabeth, conceivably....was shorter. Indeed she was pregnant at the time.....probably for a few days.....so her physical condition would not have interfered the slightest in her short trip.
It is no where mentioned that she traveled alone. She may have.....but it is doubtful since the roads were well marked and heavily traveled by all. She may have traveled with friends. She did stay with with Elizabeth for three months (verse 56) so her condition was still "early" for the trip home......and the weather was three months nicer! She may have even enjoyed the walk!
Absolutely absurd! December 25th was almost UNIVERSALLY celebrated as the birth at least 227 years prior to that, under Bishop Telesphorus.
From: The Popes: The lives of the pontiffs through 2000 years of history (Lopes A. The Popes: The lives of the pontiffs through 2000 years of history. Futura Edizoni, Roma, 1997). The book states that it is sponsored by the "Pontifical Administration, which has tutelage over the Patriarchal Basilica of St. Peter".
TELESPHORUS, ST. (125-136) Born in Calabria of a Greek family He prescribed fasting and penance in the seven weeks before Easter, thus initiating a practice that is still alive in the Christian world. He established that on Christmas eve priests could say three masses and he introduced the Gloria in excelsis Deo, which he himself may have composed, at the beginning of the mass.
But.......The Catholic Encyclopedia notes this about Christmas: Christmas was not among the earliest festivals of the Church. Irenaeus and Tertullian omit it from their lists of feasts; Origen, glancing perhaps at the discreditable imperial Natalitia, asserts (in Lev. Hom. viii in Migne, P.G., XII, 495) that in the Scriptures sinners alone, not saints, celebrate their birthday; Arnobius (VII, 32 in P.L., V, 1264) can still ridicule the "birthdays" of the gods.
For those of you in Rio Linda.....this is called a CONTRADICTION!
And....to further substantiate this contradiction: Alexandria. The first evidence of the feast is from Egypt. About A.D. 200, Clement of Alexandria (Strom., I, xxi in P.G., VIII, 888) says that certain Egyptian theologians "over curiously" assign, not the year alone, but the day of Christ's birth, placing it on 25 Pachon (20 May) in the twenty-eighth year of Augustus (Martindale C. Transcribed by Susanti A. Suastika. Christmas. The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume III. Copyright © 1908 by Robert Appleton Company. Online Edition Copyright © 2003 by K. Knight. Nihil Obstat, November 1, 1908. Remy Lafort, S.T.D., Censor. Imprimatur. +John Cardinal Farley, Archbishop of New York)
What else did Telesphorus do? The Catholic Encyclopedia notes this about him: Telesphorus is mentioned as one of the Roman bishops who always celebrated Easter on Sunday, without, however, abandoning church fellowship with those communities that did not follow this custom. None of the statements in the "Liber pontificalis" and other authorities of a later date as to liturgical and other decisions of this pope are genuine. (Kirsch J.P. Transcribed by Christine J. Murray.The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume XIV. Copyright © 1912 by Robert Appleton Company. Online Edition Copyright © 2003 by K. Knight. Nihil Obstat, July 1, 1912. Remy Lafort, S.T.D., Censor. Imprimatur. +John Cardinal Farley, Archbishop of New York).
This, of course, means that he may not have prescribed "fasting and penance in the seven weeks before Easter" either. But he may have implemented a Sunday observance. For additional proof that Telephorus did not come up with this "lenten-type fast", notice that it did not exist even as late as 190 A.D. according to The Catholic Encyclopedia: Some of the Fathers as early as the fifth century supported the view that this forty days' fast was of Apostolic institution...But the best modern scholars are almost unanimous in rejecting this view...We may then fairly conclude that Irenaeus about the year 190 knew nothing of any Easter fast of forty days...And there is the same silence observable in all the pre-Nicene Fathers, though many had occasion to mention such an Apostolic institution if it had existed. We may note for example that there is no mention of Lent in St. Dionysius of Alexandria (ed. Feltoe, 94 sqq.) or in the "Didascalia", which Funk attributes to about the year 250 (Lent. The Catholic Encyclopedia).
So.....did he.....or didn't he? I don't think we can trust the story.....one way or the other! Let's go by scripture. Christmas was not identified, authorized, observed or sanctioned by anyone in the New Testament. It is......therefore....automatically "Suspect"!
Further, a nearly unbroken line of celebration of December 25th can be seen from that point, with the Apostolic Constitution declaring it in the 3rd Century.
Balderdash!
What there is No evidence of...ZERO...is any mention of the Feast of Tabernacles coinciding with the birth.
This is why the Holy Spirit inspired Luke to give us the story of Zechariah's service in the temple [Luke 1:5-25] so we could figure it out!
Even Josephus stated that it coincided with December 25th by tying it to the Solstice which fell on that EXACT day.
I wonder what it Josephus was talking about here?
The evidence for December 25th is overwhelming. In fact, it's basically airtight.
When people are brought up in a culture that includes Fairy tales and fantasy surrounding the Word of God.....this is the natural tendency......to call these stories "Overwhelming, airtight evidence". You are taught these things from childhood and it is ingrained in your earliest memories. Your family has always participated in these festivities.....so it is quite natural to assume their validity. The problem, of course......always has been, they (Fairy tales and fantasies) are not scriptural and Our Lord, the early Church.....nor the Apostles observed, celebrated or participated in these activities.
No, your calculations of Herod's death are impossible, missing both the eclipse of 4BC and the one of 1 BC as well as the Census under Quirinnius. Augustus was to receive the great title of Pater Patriae on Feb. 5, 2 BC. So the actual governor of Palestine, probably Varus, would have had to go to Rome for the festivities, and since sailing on the Mediterranean stopped about Nov. 1, and did not resume until Spring, he must have gone in the early fall of 3 BC. But Quirinius was nearby, had just finished a successful war against the Homonadenses. So he was left as acting Governor. Luke does not use the noun governor, but the participle, "governing".
[Luke 2:1-2] And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed. (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) Governor: 2230. hegemoneuo (hayg-em-on-yoo'-o) to act as ruler/ be governor.
I had been informed right after my post #92 that my scholarship appeared accurate.....regarding the year of Herod's death. Now, all of a sudden it's all baloney again! Like you said, Chip.....maybe they need a new Funk and ChuckWagon over there and a copy of Joe. Ain't this fun?