Posted on 12/18/2008 4:27:24 AM PST by SonlitKnight
Actually, My point is to all those who would dispute the reality of Christ because of this or that or the day of His birth. Not everyone on Freerepublic name the name of Jesus.
Merry Christmas
I have not read all your points yet but to begin with your claim that Scripture places the birth of Christ under Herod the Great is incorrect. The Herod that is mentioned in scriptures is Herod the Great’s son. We know this from, among other clues in Scriptures, Matthew 14:3 where Herod places John the Baptist in prison for: “Herodias’ sake, his brother Philip’s wife”. Herod and Philip were the sons of Herod the Great and both were Tetrarchs (regional rulers). Herod the Great died about 4 years before the birth of Christ.
Furthermore, I believe any discussion regarding the date of the Crucifix need take into account the extensive research Sir Robert Anderson conducted and recorded in his book The Coming Prince which is available for free online on many sites. He places the Crucifix in the month of April, 32AD.
JB
I suppose pointing out that the Magi didn’t visit the manger in Bethlehem wouldn’t matter. They visited a “house,” most likely the family home in Nazareth.
Thanks to the writer.
I agree with much of your Biblical reasoning, but why wouldn’t the date that Jesus first “tabernacled” with us be the date He was miraculously conceived? Isn’t that when He truly began to dwell with man on earth? If His conception was 12/25, His birth would be at the end of Sept.
Owning sheep myself, I can tell you that if the pastures were lush, there is no way the shepherds would have gotten the sheep to head into town as they need to for lambing season. Those shepherds would not have left their sheep either. The sheep get used to patterns-come in from pasture to the lambing sheds, have their lambs, when the pastures are ready and lush again, they head back out with speed. Turning them around would be pretty difficult.
I don’t think there is support for December 25. But there isn’t really any “dead of winter” in Israel. Today’s temperature for example is 71 degrees.
Did you take into account the 12-day shift in the gregorian calendar? If it actually was the 25th of december back in 1bc, it wouldn’t be the 25th today.
Your dating is simply unworkable.
1- Jesus could then, not have been born during the time Quirinius was Governor.
2- Evidence suggests Herod died in 1 AD
3- Under your scenario, Jesus would have been almost 40 years old in 15th year of Tiberius. Bible says ‘about 30’.
4. A December Conception would mean Jesus is born near the end of September when the fields would be bare, near end of dry season, with nothing for the sheep to graze on.
5-Mary traveling on foot into mountains in the dead of winter?
Your scenario just doesn’t work imo
Your dating is simply unworkable.
1- Jesus could then, not have been born during the time Quirinius was Governor.
2- Evidence suggests Herod died in 1 AD
3- Under your scenario, Jesus would have been almost 40 years old in 15th year of Tiberius. Bible says ‘about 30’.
4. A December Conception would mean Jesus is born near the end of September when the fields would be bare, near end of dry season, with nothing for the sheep to graze on.
5-Mary traveling on foot into mountains in the dead of winter?
Your scenario just doesn’t work imo
You need to read more carefully. I stated OPENLY that I could not PROVE that December 25th was the precise date. However, I think I made a strong case that it is, based on Scripture and history. The article gave evidence.
Others, who responded with “no” and “probably not” should not be offended that I ask if they have evidence.
“No” is not a very compelling argument.
Thank you
Thank you
what a silly response
I really wish you had read the article. June of 6BC is unworkable and late December is EXACTLY when the sheep would have been in the fields.
You are right... it doesn’t matter.
Have you seen this information? http://www.bethlehemstar.net I thought people would think it’s interesting.
The idea of the Christians “stealing” Dec. 25th from pagans is overblown in my opinion.
A Roman civil calendar of 354 has the 25th as the birth of the “unconquered”, i.e. Sol Invictus. An ecclesiastical calendar of the same date shows the 25th as Christ’s birth. The Roman cult of Sol Invictus is not an early one—it is Mithraic, which dates to the 1st century *at the earliest*, so it is no older than—and probably actually later than Christianity. In any case, saying that one stole from the other is largely speculation—they both appear at the same time.
Here’s the civil (i.e. pagan) calendar of 354. Hope you brushed up your Latin! :)
http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/chronography_of_354_06_calendar.htm
There is other evidence that needs to be taken into account. Chrysostom said that the Romans celebrated Dec. 25th as Christmas “anothen” = “from the beginning.” and said that they calculated the date from the census records in Rome. Clement of Alexandria said that in his day (200s), people believed Christ was born on 25 Pachon or 25 Pharmuthi. Those are Egyptian months and would put the Nativity around April/May; but the “25” date is interesting.
Anyway, the various calendars in use back then and the possible ways of translating a date make it especially frustrating. Say Christ was born on 25 Kislev on the Hebrew calendar (i.e. Hannukkah). 25 Kislev was Jan. 6th in 4 B.C.—perhaps that’s how the date got attached in the East. Kislev is the 9th month, so perhaps some in Egypt made it the 25th of their 9th month (25 Pachon). And perhaps the Romans took the 25 date and considered the time of year and made it Dec. 25 (their 9th month being November).
There aren’t any pat answers for this. Neither did the early Church—which explains why a range of dates was suggested. And they’d know better than we would.
He had two terms and two different titles.
2- Evidence suggests Herod died in 1 AD
Nope -- My funky wagnalls says April 1, 4BC
3- Under your scenario, Jesus would have been almost 40 years old in 15th year of Tiberius. Bible says ‘about 30’.
Where do you get your math??? 5BC to 26 AD is 30 years. 26 AD is the 15th year of Tiberius reign measured from 11 BC when he returned to Rome to become co-Emperor with Augustus who was seriously ill.
4. A December Conception would mean Jesus is born near the end of September when the fields would be bare, near end of dry season, with nothing for the sheep to graze on.
Nope -- that's winter. September is the fall harvest.
5-Mary traveling on foot into mountains in the dead of winter?
Winter is December not September.
Your scenario just doesn’t work imo
Discard your imo and try it again.
You're Welcome!!!
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