Like I said, not as polished as FS - YET - but getting there, all w/out billion$ in resources.
Posted on 07/23/2008 5:54:47 AM PDT by twntaipan
When you buy a new PC today, unless you hunt down a Linux system or you buy a Mac, you're pretty much stuck with Vista. Sad, but true.
So, when I had to get a new PC in a hurry, after one of my PCs went to the big bit-ranch in the sky with a fried motherboard, the one I bought, a Dell Inspiron 530S from my local Best Buy came pre-infected with Vista Home Premium. Big deal. It took me less than an hour to install Linux Mint 5 Elyssa R1 on it.
As expected, everything on this 2.4GHz Intel Core2 Duo Processor E4600-powered PC ran perfectly with Mint. But, then it struck me, everyone is talking about having to buy Vista systems and then 'downgrading' them to XP Pro, how hard really is it to do that.? Since I had left half the 500BG SATA hard drive unpartitioned, I decided to install XP SP3 on it to see how much, if any, trouble I'd run into. The answer: a lot.
First, thanks to my Microsoft TechNet membership I could download an XP disk image, which included all the patches up to and including SP3. Many people aren't going to be that lucky. They'll need to install XP and then download perhaps hundreds of megabytes of patches. Boy, doesn't that sound like a lot of fun?
If you don't have a MSDN (Microsoft Developers Network) or TechNet membership, there are two ways to approach this problem. The first is to manually slipstream the patches into an XP installation CD. You can find a good set of instructions on how to do this in Slipstreaming Windows XP Service Pack 2 and Create Bootable CD. While the article is for SP2, the same technique works for XP SP3 as well.
The other way is use nLite. This is a program that allows you to customize Windows XP and 2000. While it's primarily so that you can set up Windows without components you don't want, such as Internet Explorer 6, Outlook Express, MSN Explorer, or Messenger, you can also use it to create fully patched-up boot/installation CDs. I highly recommend it.
This time I didn't need to use either one. I simply put in my newly burned XP SP3 CD and went through the usual XP installation routine. Within an hour, I was booting XP.
If this had been Linux my work would have been done. With XP, I soon discovered my job was just beginning. I soon found that XP couldn't recognize my graphics sub-system, a totally ordinary Integrated Intel GMA (Graphics Media Accelerator) 3100; the audio system, the Realtek HD Audio chipset, or, most annoying of all, the Intel 10/100Mbps Ethernet port. How can an operating system in 2008 not recognize an Ethernet port?
Well, XP doesn't.
Fortunately, Dell includes a CD with the full range of Windows drivers on it. With it, I was able to install the drivers for all the equipment without much trouble. Within another hour, I finally had a working XP SP3 system.
That wasn't so bad was it? Well, here's my problem, except for Dell, I don't know of any vendors who ship their PCs with driver disks anymore. The usual vendor answer for when you have a driver problem is for you to go online, search down the right driver, download, and install it. Except, of course, had that been my only course of action, I would have been up the creek without a paddle because XP wasn't capable of letting me talk to my network.
Mint, on the other hand, let me point out, had no trouble with any of my hardware. Thus Ubuntu-based Linux recognized the equipment, it set it up and let me get to work. It was Windows that proved to be a pain in the rump.
Greg Kroah-Hartman, a prominent Linux developer, is right. Linux Journal recently reported that he recently told an audience at the Ottawa Linux Symposium that "Linux supports more different types of devices than any other operating system ever has in the history of computing."
Linux isn't perfect that way, as Kroah-Hartman would be the first to admit. Based on what I experienced, though, Linux is much better than Windows at supporting modern hardware.
We have this illusion, that's just because Windows works on the systems it comes pre-installed on, that Windows has great built-in driver support. No, it doesn't. Once you move to installing Windows on a new system, you'll quickly find that Linux, not Windows, has the better built-in hardware support.
Yes, that's right. Linux, not Windows, is easier to install on a new PC. Just something to think about as you get ready to strip Vista off your new computer.
I did look into it. I don’t like it. I am studying X-Plane though. It may be good enough to replace FSX, which I already own. Bah, I might have to dual boot Vista and have them both.
Thanks for the input. I’ll keep that in mind but right now I’m sticking with Windows. Somewhere down the road I’m going to replace this PC and when I do I’ll see about a full Linux installation instead of Vista. But that’s down the road.
I’m basically tied to Windows right now because of a couple essential applications (to me). Quicken and Microsoft Outlook for my scheduling and syncing to my Palm. I’ve tried the scheduler that is compatible with Thunderbird, but it doesn’t sync. If it did, Microsoft Office would be gone.
Yes, I did try applications that allowed running Windows apps in Ubuntu. I wasn’t impressed. Nor was I impressed with the scheduling app (Evolution I think it’s called) that comes with the Ubuntu version of Open Office. It synced, but there were problems.
So, here I am in Windowland... :)
Could be a lot of stuff that impeded the printing. It was shared but did the restricted user have permission to print. Maybe something went wrong with the reinstall so printing itself was a problem.
As for where to set security forget control panel, the XP Users thing is junk. Right click My Computer, Manage, then you’ll find the NT style User and Groups that actually gets the work done. Remember XP was before MS decided security was important for non-servers so they didn’t make it easy.
It probably will work but there’s some goofy setting somewhere. Was the restricted account local to the laptop or part of the network? If it’s local to the laptop you’re probably going to run into all kinds of problems with resources on the other machines, though you can (through some annoying UI digging) share an object on one computer to user account local to a different one. It’s a huge pain in the butt and much easier to just use network account but it can be done.
No matter how you slice it security is a big pain in the butt. In newer Windows just dealing with the security is a pain (death to the UAC). In older Windows before MS accepted that security was important the pain is in just setting it up in the first place. I’m not going to nail anybody for flying as admin, for one thing I’m lazy and do it too, it’s just good to remember that it’s not safe and when something bad happens you shouldn’t be surprised, and don’t come around b#$%^ing and moaning about crappy Windows security afterwards.
Like I said, not as polished as FS - YET - but getting there, all w/out billion$ in resources.
But all those arguments only justify Brother's making available their crap software on the primise someone might prefer it, which I would have no objection to. What pisses me off is designing their hardware so you have to use their software which has no actual function. I mean for God's sake, the thing has slots for memory cards so you can print pictures from your digicam, and when one's plugged in the unit has an FTP server so you can drill into the memory card from a networked PC. How hard would it have been to have the fax and scan storage look like a network share, or at least have it visible via the very same FTP server? But no, you have to run their bloatware.
I'm using htmlExtra, but sometimes take advantage of FR's intelligent mode for a quick note. In that post you see the results of forgetting you already used one method and trying to mix in the other.
Well that’s monkey see monkey do. One printer company includes some stupid software that replicates Windows functionality, then one computer magazine includes that in the list of “features” when comparing various printers and of course nobody else has that checkmark and now EVERYBODY adds that to their next round of drivers.
It’s all about the checkboxes and the need to be all things to all people.
Again, it’s not the availability of the “software”, it’s being forced to use it, when it uses resources, doesn’t actually do anything I need, and being closed source could have any amount of spyware in it without me knowing.
Took me an hour or two on the Ubuntu forums. Still don't know how I did it. Cut and pasted into terminal what people suggested.
That still wouldn't stop them from writing software to satisfy clueless customers who think useless software burning RAM and CPU time and phoning home without providing any actual functionality is a good thing to have. Then they could even sell it to you for $9.95 online instead of giving it away for free with the printer like now. Or still give it away if they're afraid of PC Mag giving them a rash for selling separately.
It wasn't the reinstall. I was able to print from the Administrator account after installation. No problem. But I could not print when switching to my Restricted account. Again, it would spool, but no print.
As for where to set security forget control panel, the XP Users thing is junk. Right click My Computer, Manage, then you’ll find the NT style User and Groups that actually gets the work done. Remember XP was before MS decided security was important for non-servers so they didn’t make it easy.
Been there, done that. It brings up a Computer Management screen. What's listed is: 1) System Tools: Event Viewer, Shared Folders, Performance Logs and Alerts, Device Manager; 2) Storage: Removable Storage, Disk Degragmenter, Disk Management; 3) Services and Applications: Services, WMI Control, Indexing Service System. Nowhere is there anything, even under these areas, that pertains to Users/Groups. Nothing.
It probably will work but there’s some goofy setting somewhere. Was the restricted account local to the laptop or part of the network?
Local to the laptop.
I’m not going to nail anybody for flying as admin, for one thing I’m lazy and do it too, it’s just good to remember that it’s not safe and when something bad happens you shouldn’t be surprised, and don’t come around b#$%^ing and moaning about crappy Windows security afterwards.
I understand. But keep in mind, your usual PC buyer will be totally clueless about security. Much more so than you or even I. I'm both hardware and software firewalled and running anti-virus software. I run Ad-Ware, and have Spybot running in the background. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I've had few to no problems for quite some time.
I decided to look into changing accounts so I gave it a try. Well, I'm back to running as Administrator. There may be a threat, but it's a heck of a lot easier and hassle free from a user standpoint. And I can assure you, well over 95% of the PC public is likely doing the same.
Boy, you had to bring up Terminal, didn't you. Terminal and Sudo were my two main bugaboos with Linux. I think I've said that upthread so I won't go into it again here. Boy was that a pain, though.
I agree with that mostly. For me, the bye bye to windows happened when I could finally convert AVI etc. to DVD files and burn discs that would play on standalone DVD players. Ubuntu does everything else I need.
The problem is not so simple. I recently bought a machine for my mom to use Linux on (she wanted it for some reason). My computer science brother could not get Suse on it to run properly. Because Ubuntu only made DVD installation disks, that was not possible because the machine only had a CD drive.
My mother could def get XP on there on her own.
I suspect many of us who’ve tried Linux have Windows based applications they missed GREATLY. I went through the throws of trying to run Windows apps in Linux. Simple apps worked alright. But others were a pain or didn’t work. And I bought software to do that with. No, not VMWare. I didn’t have the cash to throw at that one; especially for what little I’d need it for.
But it taught me a lesson. Windows is not perfect by a long shot. But it works, although yes there are issues. It’s been decades though since I’ve been involved with it. So it’s like an old pair of sneakers that’s seen better days, and may look kinda cruddy and let is a little puddle at times. But they’re still more comfortable than that new pair I tried last month.
Flexibility and working the way YOU want to is part of the appeal.
Uh, huh.
It is but I have the spare time to tinker.
Look I’m not telling you it’s a good thing, I’m just saying why they do it. That’s how the business works, that’s how the business has worked for a long time, and there’s no reason to think the business is going to run any differently in our lifetimes.
You’ve got home edition. Forgot how different they are. That’s probably why you can’t hit the network printer properly. Home edition has tons of limitations on network access, especially on the restricted account.
I know the vast majority of Windows users are running in admin. That’s the problem. You can use all those defensive measures, and I run many myself, but in the end running as admin is like having sex with crack hos, you can limit your vulnerability with condoms and AV software, but you can’t yourself 100% safe. You and I are one exposure to a new virus that’s not in the database of our AV tools yet away from major trouble. Never forget the lessons of iloveyou, most successful virus in history, estimated at hitting 10% of the computers connected to the net at the time, every last infected computer was because somebody with admin privileges double clicked on the wrong exe. We the users are a significant part of the Windows security problem.
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