[brityank]

Excuse my jumping in here, but both of you have valid viewpoints, as formed from your individual experience and knowledge. It should surprise neither of you that there is a disparity in that knowledge, as history is written mainly by the winners of any contest, whereas the loser's position is often lost or modified in its retelling.

I believe that you will find that the main reason societies wither and die (whether by conquest and assimilation, or by insularity and isolation) is because of what the US tried to provide against in 1776 -- over-reaching and unaccountable government. It seems we all only speak what we want to hear, and spend little time seeing the truths before us.

"We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed, by their CREATOR, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness."

The Declaration of Independence of the founders of the United States details the manner in which all societies fall, and they created a Constitution -- not for the People, but to place restrictions on government and the legal actions it can take. That we, the People, have failed to follow the precepts laid down in both of those documents is why America will fall, and why all governments that try to rule from the top down will also fail. It is not democracy that enables and ennobles a society, but rather Freedom -- Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.

Did they get it all right, from the start? No, but they tried, and did provide the legal framework to effect necessary changes.

[tacticalogic]

all governments that try to rule from the top down will also fail.

That appears to me to be exactly what the Chinese are trying to do. The concept of "consent of the governed" is not there.