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To: ejonesie22
So then what is the answer? Is there an answer that will address both the finical and legal issues, one that reflects conservative principal, one that goes past any hatred toward illegal aliens and looks objectively at actually solving the problem. What is more important, despising these people or solving the issue in a conservative and nationally acceptable way. If we fail that, we will go no where and it will be 50 million by the next decade. If you have a better answer, one that addresses the logistical and political realities, that goes beyond "Round 'em up and head 'em out" to address how exactly we are going to do that, I am all ears, for I have done that, and getting rid of all of them fails every time.

I haven't seen people here posting about hating illegals, as you've stated twice. That's YOU implying an emotionality to the subject, something liberals do all the time. Besides, I haven't read anything from you giving a solution that you would approve of, given your criteria above.
180 posted on 10/23/2007 11:17:03 AM PDT by CottonBall
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To: CottonBall; All
I just did earlier in the thread.

Post 89

And the tone I have seen from many is not exactly hug and kisses and a harsh tone is the last thing we need in this fight, we are already seen as basing this whole thing on an ethnic group, whether that is reality doesn't matter.

This has nothing to do with emotion on my end, indeed it seems to often be emotion that drives the "toss 'em all out" crowd.

What always fails to follow that is a detailed plan on exactly how that will occur even with attrition from enforcement, which as I stated above is part one of the solution.

You guys fail to realize the forces arrayed against us in the fight for finally bringing sanity into the immigration debate. Lets look at a few:

1. The Democrats are shopping for a voting block, and really love to rally to the cause of those poor defenseless little farm and factory workers, those us big bully Republicans want to toss back into poverty. They will show stories of these wonderful families chasing the American dream. How could anyone especially us mean old Conservatives who always talk about responablilty and making it on your own, be against that. That leads to their willing accomplices...

2. The press. Imagine every morning on the Today show stories of those poor little Mexican families, their kids locked up, their lively hoods taken away. Oh brother, then it really gets going. Oprah filming our barely functioning detention centers where little Maria who made your daughters first dance dress sits in sweltering heat, starving waiting to be sent back to that horrible nation of Mexico. Oh the humanity. Every day and every night...

3. Business interest are looking for workers who will actually show up. They will suffer at the beginning from the attrition and enforcement, but as labor shortages occur, remember our unemployment is low right now and our own remaining deadbeats refuse to work, then they will be screaming like hell to do something, and they have a lot of pull, what do you think happened in the eighties under Reagan.

4. The ACLU is chomping at the bit to get deportation into the courts on a large scale. Right now the deportation are low key and not very visible, and often involve a violent criminal element. They wont touch that, but deport a family and Katie bar the doors. Go look at their sight and see how successful they have been defeating anti immigrant local and state laws so far. Which leads me to...

5. The Courts come into play. The 9th circuit, well I rest my case right there.

6. The activist. They are loud and proud and love a good crowd. They also have the spare time to give The ACLU and the dems all the help they need.

7.Logistics. I will stress it once again, even with enforcing the laws, many will run underground, because poor and on the run here beats the hell out of being poor in Mexico. Also, it ties to other issues such as the American people. Many of these folks will be driven to petty crime to survive. You think the Oprah generation will blame them, hell no, they will blame us Republican SOBs who insisted that these folks leave their jobs and flee under ground. Just dandy guys. So we have to go after them, which kicks off everything above IF it could be done. But I have yet to have anyone answer this simple question:

In a country where the is a shortage of law enforcement officers and prisons cells, exactly who is going to arrest these folk AND detain them until tried (which will happen thank to the ACLU etc.) and deported. What courts will handle the enormous case load? Who will guard these folks and where?

Which finally leads to...

8.An American population who has the attention span of a house fly. Will they support the massive effort, epically after the 30th episode where Oprah tells them that their tax money is going to arrest these poor unfortunates.

Its bull$hit, I know it, but it is reality.

We don't have 3/4 of the congress to make demands with, and we know the story of the courts, it plays out here daily.

If we fail at any given point in this, we will AT BEST, stop mid process with maybe a fence and 10 million Mexicans of all types, not just the hard working ones who did come here for a shot. Indeed it may reverse everything INCLUDING border security since the Dems will see an opening to bring in more and gain their votes. It's time to beat the bastards at their own game, let us set the rules and the level of the inevitable compromise, end this thing quickly and keep our kids from dealing with this $hit.

We need to enforce the laws and FDT is damn right on that, but we also need to end run these bastards and soon.

We have to think here and play samrt for a change.

192 posted on 10/23/2007 12:46:43 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (265 pound Lemming with attitude for Thompson!)
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