“Yes,,
Not liking what I am saying or the way I said it is just not the same as refuting it.”
Tone and the manner and language used are important. We are not refuting but saying the behavior that is bullying is unprofessional. I don’t tolerate bullies and no way should society tolerate cops that are bullies.
“Show me in the Law where it says an officer cannot use subterfuge and deception to gain information..
You cannot...”
It is well-established case law that police can lie and use subterfuge. That is the reason that refusal to give information and questioning the police on what is the charge is correct. That is the correct way to preserve the constitutional rights of self-incrimination. Courts have decided that people are under no obligation to tell the police what they are doing or planning of doing. They do have to provide their name and license if they are driving.
“The Officer did not actually bring false charges against the kid..”
The cop did not commit the illegal act of bringing false charges. But he did threaten to do so, which is against police policy when there is no reason to suspect the person of a crime. It is no crime to pull into a parking lot and stop at 2 am.
“Get a clue... What he did was wrong by my values and yours..
At the same time there is a need to gather intelligence when acting as a LEO to try to ferret out what is going on.”
Agreed and the act of gathering intelligence would be to inquire what Darrow was doing and to get his license and registration. However Darrow is under no obligation to provide the reason he parked in the lot. The police then run the tag and license to see the status of the driver. If no outstanding warrants then the police have no right to detain or arrest Darrow. Yelling and threatening to lay false charges are bullying and the cop had no reason to act that way. Darrow had not committed a crime.
“Further there is no law prohibiting it... If there was he would have been charged with a crime by now..”
The cop did not commit a crime, but to be fired does not require the employee to commit a crime. Police departments can fire an employee for violating policy and behaving inappropriately or abusing his authority.
“Firing the Officer is just a CYA exercise by the Department Heads not addressing what is a systemic problem..”
Since the officer has stated that he could lay false charges to Darrow, opens up every arrest and ticket he has made to investigation that he falsified charges. Expensive for his department and city. Reason enough to fire the cop.
“I think pretty much everyone knows this sort of thing goes on all the time..”
If it happens all the time, then it is time to get rid of all these cops, since they are in the wrong line of work. Society cannot afford thugs and bullies to be the police since that increases hostility and suspicion in society and leads to a police state. People who have power over the populace should be screened that they not be abusive. Once found that they do abuse their authority, then they should be fired. These are the bad apples that infect the rest of a police department. This leads others to think that is the correct way to behave.
“Now either it is wrong and should be made illegal.. Or it is OK and this Officer should be reinstated.”
Lots of things are wrong that are not illegal. Are you stating that a police officer has to break the law to be fired? Do we all have to break the law in order for our employer to fires us?
“A while back Plain Clothes Officers followed someone from a Bar and that person ultimately wound up being shot to death.
The Argument was he did not know they were LEO’s
The problem could be solved with a policy change allowing Plain Clothed Officers to arrest only in extraordinary circumstances especially at night..
That has not happened
The problem here will also be glossed over unless we change the law to change the behavior..”
There is no need to change the law. All the police department has to do is change the policy. No need for state legislatures to enact laws to make police department policies.
“Under the current law he did nothing to justify being fired.”
Being fired does not require someone to break the law.
“I am not saying the Officer is right.. But he committed no crime and did nothing that does not happen every day..”
If it happens every day, it needs to stop and those that do should go into another line of employment.
“You know that I suspect.
But instead of changing the law you go after some Officer doing on the street what is not all that uncommon..”
Again don’t need a law, just standards and policies that I am sure the police have, just as most companies have for their employees.
“Therefore the message is “Its ok to do this just don’t get caught””
No. The message is don’t act this way. If you do, expect to be fired.
“What kind of message does that send to LEOs?”
That bullying will not be tolerated.
“Address my points not my grammar please.”
W
I did address your points and not your grammar. I do hope that you do not believe that this cops behavior was acceptable.
Fernwood
Fernwood,
If what he did was wrong but not illegal..
Then that means Citizens treatment will be dependent upon the Policies of each Police Department and not the Law, That is very improper, very wrong.
The young person in this incident here pointed out that his impression when speaking with the Department Chief was that the Chief was more concerned the Officer was caught than by the Officers conduct.
Unfortunately I find that believable. It also supports my earlier contention that the Officer is being used as a scapegoat, being thrown under the bus to avoid addressing the real issue.
Since this sort of conduct is not legally pro-scripted there really is no common standard and two citizens in the same situation could be impacted in dramatically different ways when interacting with LEOs from different departments and areas. Even in different ways depending upon the Officer.
That is very wrong. even dangerous for both the citizen and the police.
Should not some “Standard” be established as a “bright line”? A codification saying this conduct is not lawful..
For example;
An Officer may not threaten a citizen or threaten to retaliate if he does not gain compliance or the citizen refuses to comply with the Officers request when he is not legally required to do so.
It seems to me that at this time both the Civilian Officer and the Citizen are caught up in a no win situation where both must guess at what is acceptable and non acceptable conduct and that the goal post (the standard) is a moving target.
That is not right or fair to either the Civilian LEO or the Citizenry.
Make the law clear.
Establish a statewide, better still a nationwide legal standard regarding this.. that will be progress.
W
PS
I still say something good can come out of this for everyone Civilian LEO employees and the Citizenry. We should not allow this Officer to be the Scape Goat and instead demand that our legislative bodies change the laws related to this.
Make the law clear and unambiguous. That is a much better result than just firing one LEO and allowing the system to cover up the problem.