Officer who berated driver loses job in St. George

STLtoday.com ^ | 09/21/2007 | Kim Bell and Greg Jonsson

[beltfed308]

ST. GEORGE — A police officer who was recorded berating a motorist earlier this month has lost his job.

The board of aldermen voted 5-0, with one member absent, to fire Sgt. James Kuehnlein on Monday. The vote was cast in a session closed to the public and wasn't announced until Wednesday, when a notice was posted at the City Hall of this tiny south St. Louis County community.

In a video that got wide viewership on the Internet, Kuehnlein taunts and threatens motorist Brett Darrow, 20, sometimes shouting and using profanity, after questioning him in a commuter lot near Interstate 55. Darrow posted the footage of the Sept. 7 incident on the web.

[Nate505]

That has to be the most mild mouthing off in history.

He wasn’t being peachy keen totally happy cooperative, but he was hardly being a total ass.

[elkfersupper]

The point is, I thought it was odd he did so.

My point is, I think it is odd that you think it is odd he did so.

[elkfersupper]

It was an artificial antagonistic situation set up by the kid and recorded for internet distribution.

You say that like it is a bad thing.

[elkfersupper]

Citizens take note: if you have to pull in somewhere, put your hazard lights on! At least no one will have to guess why you're there.

That draws attention.

It has been my experience that once you attract the attention of "Law Enforcement Officers", you are in deep doo-doo.

[elkfersupper]

I think it is past time for you to tell us exactly where you ply your trade so none of us go there.

[pray4liberty]

Which is why I'm not an astronaut. Now, are you going to conclude that I'm an alcoholic who needs help? Probably.

For the record...what have you been drinking? LOL

[pray4liberty]

It has been my experience that once you attract the attention of "Law Enforcement Officers", you are in deep doo-doo.

You and I need to talk. LOL

[thefactor]

thankfully, you wouldn't want to come here anyway. with or without cops like me who have stellar records and no disciplinary charges either department or citizen-initiated.

perhaps i'll see you out hunting or at a fred '08 rally. maybe then you can tell me why i'm such a bad guy for loving the sinner but hating the sin.

[KurtZ]

"we have another saying: nobody likes a rat."

I understand that you do not approve of cops turning each other in. What I meant by my previous question (Does this saying apply to everyone or just other cops?) is do you also not approve of civilians turning each other in?

You don't have to answer, as the question was more rhetorical in nature. It's almost like you cops think that you're in the mafia. You think you can and should get away with anything.

we have another saying: nobody likes a rat. -thefactor

"we will ruin your career and life and everything else you have coming before you. Okay?" - Police Sgt. James Kuehnlein

Police officers, or Al Capone?

[DanielLongo]

I just read the transcript and have to absolutely agree with you. The officer was the one with “attitude”. Nothing the young man said, no matter how he said it was sufficient to even be asked out of his car, let alone pressed nose to nose with obscenities flying and being frisked. Anyone who wants to ameliorate the officer’s actions has a gross misunderstanding of what their duties are and where they begin and end. You don’t relinquish rights or liberties merely because you are in the presence of someone with a badge.

[Starwolf]

Sure, that's possible. And the sounds of hoofs could be zebras, not horses.

To continue with your animal theme, Brett made a monkey out of you with post #477. He does indeed record nearly continuously

As some one who has done real time logging, the approaches I suggested were in use are the standards and far from exotic. Not sure what your personal expertise is, but I suggest you stay within it.

[thefactor]

your argument makes no sense. i have said again and again that i did not mean cops should not turn other cops in for illegal actions. i said it all had to do with department procedures, following orders, and personal interactions between cops.

so you cannot transfer that argument to civilians. maybe you should ask for your money back from that whole year of criminal justice schooling.

that was real nice equating cops to mobster's, though. just like a fireman. as much as cops would love to get paid to cook, sleep, work-out, and shop, we have to be out on the streets during our tour and actually deal with people. we don't take things that don't belong to us, either.

[Starwolf]

I've been on drug threads where the mantra is, "Why are the cops arresting pot smokers who are harming no one when they should be going after the real criminals?"

Apples vs oranges. Smoking dope is illegal, while Brett did nothing wrong.

Let me throw it back. Why are we defending this punk kid who's intentionally antagonizing the cop and wasting his time with his stupid YouTube antics?

Brett was not antagonistic, your assertions to the contrary are clearly in the minority here and elsewhere. His actions got a bad cop off the street. That is a good thing.

Because I find that cops in a small wealthy city to be just a little more tolerant than in city like St. Louis or Chicago. I'm sure you'll object and say that shouldn't be the case, but I would expect that from one who is disconnected from reality.

Based on your posts I am a good deal better ground in reality than you are with a great deal more real world experinece.

St George is not STL or CHI. Its a fake city with bottom of the LEO barrel for cops that runs off of traffic ticket revenue. Real cops in a real city would never crossed the like as the perp did.

My experience is that the small wealthy town cops are much more noxious than the pros in the larger cities. However, when dealt with firmly they too relent and follow the law.

[KurtZ]

"as much as cops would love to get paid to cook, sleep, work-out, and shop, we have to be out on the streets during our tour and actually deal with people."

See, I think most cops really just wanted to be fireman, and that's why they're so pissed off.

"we don't take things that don't belong to us, either."

The local Sheriffs Dept here owns six ATVs, all confiscated from the locals. They are mostly used for off-duty hunting, and once a month they use them in the woods while they play army with the assault rifles obtained from Homeland Security.

[Starwolf]

Scrutiny is fine but what the kid does isn’t scrutinizing.

Its self protection. It busted a bad cop and cost the perp his badge. A very good thing.

Filming the encounter is required?

It clearly was that night. I do similar things, especially when on my motorcycle, and I know others who do as well.

It is a sad thing that this is needed these days, but when LEOs won't police themselves, its up to the rest of us to expose the bad ones. The incident at a bar in CHI comes to mind of LEOs protecting themselves at the expense of the rest of us. We really don't need those kind of thugs as LEOs.

[Starwolf]

Post #8 in this thread has the transcript. I’ll just let everyone decide for themselves.

They have, and your position is a miniscule minority view

[Starwolf]

That's it! Yep you did. I asked you two questions and you answered neither of them. I asked you for ID and you're not giving it to me. At this point, I'M bitch-slapping the kid as I'm pulling him from the car -- which is why I'm not a cop.

And hopefully you live a hermetic life, since you would appear to be like the perp and get abusive when you do not get your way with others.

The kid was uncooperative, evasive, combative, a smart ass, and a jerk, wasting the time of a cop who -- up to this point -- has been polite.

No the citizen was reasonably declining to give information to the LEO that he was not required to provide. If he was older and smoother, the perp might have been more restrained and kept his job. Instead he used the victim's youth as an excuse to go off like Krakatoa.

Now you may say he wasn't required to give the cop this or that. Fine. Then why did he eventually tell the cop why he was there and why did he eventually show his ID?

In the later interview it seemed to me he was in fear of a armed raving lunatic who's word would automatically be taken over his. In his circumstances, most of us would say anything necessary to escape and expose the perp on the recording we knew was underway.

All in all the perp took the hit, and that is a good thing.

[Starwolf]

He also repeats it like it was the truth, when in fact it is false.

[thefactor]

sweet. the local firemen around here own plenty of items they "confiscated" from fire scenes.

"sorry, maam. your jewelery box was damaged beyond recognition by the smoke. your laptop too."

no wonder why it's department policy for police officer's to guard the dwelling and property of DOA's when the FD responds.

[ninonitti]

See, I think most cops really just wanted to be fireman,

and that's why they're so pissed off. "we don't take things that don't belong to us, either."

I think this betrays that fireman jealousy perfectly - the firemen go in with their boots down and come out with their boots up unlike cops who have to pocket everything.