Posted on 02/25/2007 2:07:53 PM PST by Al Simmons
Recently, My GOP wrote a BRILLIANT post about the REAL Rudy Giuliani and his record. It is MUST READING for most of the anti-Giuliani Kool-Aid-Drinkers around here who are going off half-cocked without knowing the FACTS.
So I am taking the liberty of reproducing My Gop's post here in full:
I just can’t understand why so many are making Rudy look more liberal than he really is on social issues and why they refuse to acknowledge he is a conservative on just about every non-social issue and I certainly can’t understand how social issues are more important than all the other issues when choosing a President since the President has very little influence on social issues. And I certainly can’t understand how being “perfect” on social issues is more important than electability.
To begin with, Rudy is AGAINST gay marriage. On Hannity and Colmes on February 5th he said, “Marriage should be between a man and a woman. [It's] exactly the position I've always had.” Now as far as homos go, personally, I disagree with their life style but as long as they do what they do in the privacy of their own home I really don't care and nobody else should either, especially not the federal government. The POTUS doesn't have the power to stop people from being gay. And he surely shouldn't be interferring in people's private lives. And to top things off, marriage is a state issue. So therefore voting on the basis of this issue doesn't make much sense.
Rudy is not the abortion on demand liberal people make him out to be. He is against partial birth abortions, contrary to the misinformation some on here are posting. On Hannity Rudy said “Partial-birth abortion, I think that's going to be upheld(by the USSC). I think that ban is going to be upheld. I think it should be.” And as soon as Rudy got finished saying this, Hannity acknowledged, “There's a misconception that you supported partial-birth abortion”. So there we have, Rudy is against partial birth abortions. Rudy is also for parental notification. He also acknowledged this on Hannity. So Rudy certainly isn’t for abortion on demand.
In general on abortion, we have a pro-life President now but we are still having abortions. No president has the power to stop abortion. Rudy has already said he supports strict constructionist judges like John Roberts. He constantly praised the President for appointing Roberts and Alito. On Hannity Rudy said “I think the appointment of judges that I would make would be very similar to, if not exactly the same as, the last two judges that were appointed. Chief Justice Roberts is somebody I work with, somebody I admire, Justice Alito someone I knew when he was U.S. attorney, also admire. If I had been president over the last four years, I can't think of any, you know, that I'd do anything different with that.” Assuming Rudy gets elected President and appoints Roberts-like justices then maybe Roe v. Wade will get overturned. But even if it does get overturned we know that this won’t stop all abortions. The abortion issue would then revert back to the states and does anyone really think California would outlaw abortions? Being pragmatic in our thinking we all know we can't completely stop abortions. Therefore voting solely on this issue very unpragmatic. I hate abortions like everyone else on here but I realize that regardless of how many pro-life presidents we elect, its just not going to stop.
I'll admit his past gun stances are bothersome but he has say that what's good for NYC isn't good for all of America. However, he isn’t the anti-Second Amendment Nazi he is made out to be. On Hannity Rudy said, “I understand the Second Amendment. I support it. People have the right to bear arms.” Rudy isn’t going to try to ban guns or come take anyones guns. Are Democrats pushing for gun control now that they have control of Congress? No. And nobody has pushed for gun control since Gore lost the election in 2000. Everyone knows its a losing issue and I don't see any push for gun control by anybody in the near future.
Rudy is great on all the other issues, the ones where the President actually has the power to make a real difference, like the WOT. He's fiscally responible(he turned a NYC's deficit into a surplus), a tax cutter(he cut over 20 taxes as Mayor), conservative on domestic policies(he dropped 600,000 people off welfare, cleaned up the rampant crime as Mayor and supports school choice, ect), for smaller government and government deregulation, for social security reform, supports strict constructionist judges, and is 100% perfect when it comes to his stance on the WOT and all other foreign policy which by the way is 100 times more important than worrying about what some gays people are doing, gay people that doesn't affect our lives at all!!!
Finally, Rudy is, IMO, the only Republicans that can win in 2008. So take your pick, Hillary or Rudy. Sure, we can "choose" another Republican but he will lose to Hillary. Back to Rudy, if he's elected President and fights terrorist like he fought crime as Mayor can you imagine the results we will in the defining struggle of our generation, the fight against Islamic fascism. Everyone know for a fact Hillary will surrender the terrorist and hand our foreign policy over to the UN and EU and poor Israel would be left out to dry. Rudy is extremely competetent and a great leader and there is nobody I want more as Commander in Chief. So I think we need to stop worrying about gays, people that don't affect our lives life at all. We need to worry about Islamic fascism, the people that want to kill us all, and vote for someone that will go after them.
Many in the conservative community are open to Rudy. Sean Hannity is certainly open to Rudy and likes Rudy. George Will wrote this about Rudy, ““His eight years as mayor of New York were the most successful episode of conservative governance in this country in the last 50 years, on welfare and crime particularly." Giuliani, more than any other candidate (Romney comes the closest) has the record of taking on major institutions and reforming them. Think about tourist magnet that is New York now. When Rudy Giuliani took office, 59% of New Yorkers said they would leave the city the next day if they could. Under Rudy Giuliani’s leadership as Mayor of the nation’s largest city, murders were cut from 1,946 in 1993 to 649 in 2001, while overall crime – including rapes, assaults, burglary and auto-thefts – fell by an average of 57%. Not only did he fight crime in Gotham like Batman, despite being constantly vilified by the New York Times, he took head on the multiculturalism and victimization perpetuated by Al Sharpton and his cohort of race baiters. He ended New York’s set-aside program for minority contractors and rejected the idea of lowering standards for minorities. As far as the economy goes, Rudy reduced or eliminated 23 city taxes. He faced a $2.3 billion budget deficit but cut spending instead hiking taxes." Heck, even Rush is open to Rudy. Rush said, “"He's a smart cookie ... Here's the thing about Giuliani," he said on his radio show the other day. "Everybody's got problems with him ... But when you start polling him on judges, he's a strict constructionist ... That will count for quite a bit. He can fix the abortion thing ... So I think he's got potential--particularly, folks, since we're still going to be at war somewhere in 2008." If Rush is at least open to Rudy then he realizes Rudy isn’t that bad.
And apparently even Reagan liked Rudy. Rudy was Reagan's Associate Attorney General and was awarded the Ronald Reagan Freedom Award, putting him along side Margaret Thachter, Billy Graham, and Bob Hope as receiptants of the award. Speaking of Ronald Reagan, Reagan said this about compromise in his autobiography An American Life: "When I began entering into the give and take of legislative bargaining in Sacramento, a lot of the most radical conservatives who had supported me during the election didn't like it. "Compromise" was a dirty word to them and they wouldn't face the fact that we couldn't get all of what we wanted today. They wanted all or nothing and they wanted it all at once. If you don't get it all, some said, don't take anything. I'd learned while negotiating union contracts that you seldom got everything you asked for. And I agreed with FDR, who said in 1933: 'I have no expectations of making a hit every time I come to bat. What I seek is the highest possible batting average.' If you got seventy-five or eighty percent of what you were asking for, I say, you take it and fight for the rest later, and that's what I told these radical conservatives who never got used to it."
Yes, Rudy may be alittle bit of a compromise but in reality, everytime you vote it’s a compromise. Nobody is ever going to find a candidate or a President they agree with 100% of the time, even Ronald Reagan. Reagan gave amnesty to illegal immigrants in 1986 and I’m sure the vast majority of Freepers disagree with that. Reagan even appointed O’Connor to the Supreme Court. Nobody is perfect. The only thing we can do is find the Presidential candidate we agree with the most on the most important issues and issues the President has the most influence over, the one that is the most electable, and the one that would make the best and strongest leader. That’s Rudy.
Back to Ronald Reagan for a second. In the above excerpt he used the term “radical conservatives”. So apparently Reagan thought that conservatives that were all or nothing, unappeasable, unpragmatic, and unrealistic are “radical”. I do too. Lets review history. World War II ended in 1945. SEVEN years later in 1952 the most popular general of the war, Dwight Eisenhower, won in a landslide despite far right extremist unpragmatic Republicans not supporting him in the primaries. History always repeats itself. I must now end the overly long post by quoting Dennis Miller, who also supports Rudy, “Rudy would have the best bumpersticker, ‘I’m the man the men in caves don’t want to win’”. Enough said.
I proved it time and time again, Peach. And you keep demanding links - and deny your clear claim that Reagan signed two abortion bills even when it your own posts are mapped out.
You're the worst the Rudy boosters have to offer - a dishonest poster going out of her way to discredit a conservative icon. Of course, you are the first to decry factual documentation of Rudy's liberalism, even as you make up your attacks on Reagan, such as your attempt to claim Reagan never called for PBA bans when PBA was not an issue during his administration. Shameless.
I'm not the one making stuff up, Peach. You've been caught time and time again getting your facts wrong and denying that you did when you get caught.
And you've never given a link. We'll add liar to fool and idiot.
I provide a link. You denied your own posts. AS you are wont to do. Just as you leave out the details of the 1967 abortion bill. You're despicable. You're no better than a pigeon on a statue of a great man.
So provide the link. Let's see it.
It wasn't abortion legislation. It was intended to remove the risk that a surgeon might be prosecuted for a legitimate medical decision; saving the most viable life in an emergency.
I'll dig it up, Peach. So you can deny it YET AGAIN.
Sure.
1967
California Therapeutic Abortion Act enacted. Allows a physicians' committee to approve abortions in cases where there is substantial risk that continuance of the pregnancy would gravely impair the physical or mental health of the woman, and in cases of rape and incest. Requires all abortions to be performed in accredited hospitals. Prohibits abortions after 20 weeks gestation. Also, causes Penal Code sections on abortion to be amended to exempt abortions which are in compliance with this act.
LINK
238 posted on 01/22/2007 6:31:01 PM EST by Reagan Man (Conservatives don't vote for liberals.)
My post to you about the "liberal abortion bill"
There you go again. See post 238.
253 posted on 01/22/2007 6:43:37 PM EST by dirtboy (Duncan Hunter - I still like ya, but please read the 10th and get back to me regarding Congr
And your subsequent post when informed of the limits on the 1967 bill:
Yes and it's not terribly valid since it doesn't address the legislation he signed in 1970.
258 posted on 01/22/2007 6:48:47 PM EST by Peach (The Clintons pardoned more terrorists than they captured or killed.)
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So you are caught denying your own posts. Yet again.
Oh, and here is the thread where you tried to make an issue of Reagan not asking for a PBA ban when it wasn't an issue when he was president:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1771666/posts#73
Yep, you work long and hard coming up with ways to crap on the Reagan legacy.
Where's the link to my post that supposedly takes you to this site that you think is so horrific? Wikepedia) It didn't show up.
Yet again.
I'll support him, because I saw what he is capable of while living in NJ near NYC. I don't think you will regret it, he would be a strong, effective leader and that's what we continue to need.
"I'm honored that the thread got so much attention!"
This is the sort of fundamental battle that FR is about, IMHO. I think that if Guiliani is elected, you will be very disappointd.
According to the poll Barone cited 88% of the GOP would definetetly vote for Rudy. Bush got 91% of the vote in 2004. So Rudy is holding the base according to the polls. Also Rudy in the Barone poll got 14% of Democrats and 64% of independents. Rudy will win if nominated. I'm certainly not going to question Michael Barone, the author of the Almanac of American Politics.
I'll not support him. I'll vote for the R candidate only because the R platform is better than the D platform. If it's Rudy, I'll be sick about it because that will only help things shift even farther to the left.
Youngsters these days have no idea what principles are good for--they just toss them out when they get a little inconvenient.
That was a bill to clarify that taking the life of the unborn child to save the life of the mother was not murder. It was not intended to enable elective abortion.
Equivocate much? Your risible attempts to save face by attacking the messenger fool no one. Yet they do show that fanatics like yourself succeed only in marginalizing your positions and candidates.
Don't hate the playah's baby, hate the game.
Your alliterative reasoning skills must not go unnoticed by the Hunter campaign. Take this thread and mail it to him. You really should sign up for a job as master debater.
dirtboy, I look forward to the disambiguation of your post #589; though I won't be surprised if you're not man enough to provide one, my aptly named FRiend.
He's an anti-gun wingnut. Done.
Ah, since I backed up my claim, all you can do is rely on stupid, banal personal attacks. It's what we've come to expect from the Rudy camp - lie when it works and attack when the lies are caught.
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