I’m Tired Of Hearing About The Missing Mt. Hood Climbers

MND ^ | December 17, 2006 | By Robert Paul Reyes

[paulat]

perhaps we could all stay in our homes, in the US and work from a computer

...and you think THAT"S SAFE????

[Mopp4]

Who defines necessary? For example, riding a motorcycle is certainly more dangerous than driving a car. Is riding a motorcycle with the higher inherent risk to be considered necessary? How about riding in a boat?

OK...tell you what...You'll have my full agreement on the day when mountain climbing becomes an everyday activity for most people. Then we can have 911 for mountain rescues.

[Man50D]

I believe it is you that is missing the point. Both the rescuers and the climbers, IMO, are motivated by the challenge. That's what is behind our space exploration, ocean exploration, any exploration. The challenge, curiosity, and the exhilaration that goes along with conquering new territories, discovery, physical and mental mettle testing, all qualities that are necessary to the survival of the species. That's us. Nothing would have been gained in the world without the risk takers.

All these explorers were able to fulfill their desires without jeopardizing the lives of others and did so for the benefit of not only themselves but of society. The three climbers on Mt. Hood were not motivated to serve humanity. They were motivated to serve their own personal desires.

We have already made wimps of too many of our men in our society. I'm all for men being men, and doing what many men do, and part of that is to challenge their environment, and take risks. You can see it on the playground when little boys are young, and climb to the highest part of the jungle jim, while most little girls look on. It's a boy thing. I'm sick to death of too many women wanting to make men just like them, and/or too many men, sitting on their butts complaining about other men who actually get off their duffs and take risks.



Even in business, where bankruptcy is a real threat, most often it is men who jump in feet first to establish new ventures. Without risk, no society would move forward. Give me a manly man anyday. I don't like wimps. Too many Democratic men are wimps (think Alan Colmes of Hannity and Colmes, as an example).

You're straying from the subject of the thread. Once again it's about the circumstances of the three mountain climbers.

These men were experienced climbers who knew the dangers and had climbed many times before.

They should have considered the danger they create for others and not just themselves.

When you are out in nature, you always are surrounded by potential danger, as the victims of Katrina found out.

Poor analogy. The katrina victims weren't knowingly and willingly attempting to place themselves in danger! They didn't go into the Gulf Of Mexico to experience the full fury of a hurricane! They were in their own homes! Big difference!

Rescuing these climbers gives the search teams extra practice and experience on how to deal with a new rescue scenario, which adds to the body of knowledge on how to do rescues.

The search teams didn't require the climbers to place themselves in a life threatening situaion simply so the rescuers can practice.

An analogy would be our U.S. troops. Unless they eventually end up in battle some day, everything they have learned is theoretical unless put into practice at some point.

Guess what it means if our troops never go into battle? We have peace! Ignoring that fact, they don't sit around hoping for war. The climbers wanted to climb the north side of an 11,000 foot mountain in December, on its more dangerous side.

Obviously there are risks to battle, but the troops gain experience in actual warfare and become better warriors for it.

What is also obvious is they do so to save the lives of Americans. They mountain climbers motivations were not altruistic but selfish to the point of risking lives.

Man has been climbing mountains forever, out of need, or out of desire. I admire them.

I admire any climber who attempts who does not put others in harms way.

[flaglady47]

I admire any climber who attempts who does not put others in harms way.

You are exactly where you should be, sitting in a chair and typing. Mr. Peeples. Don't ever do anything that could cause problems for others, like going over the speed limit, eating at Taco Bell, going to an Amusement Park and getting on the roller coaster, anything fun that might also involve some risk that would require rescue. You would have made a lousy pioneer. I guess just as long as you don't have any fun doing whatever risk taking you do is all right by you. Have you noticed that all of the rescuers sound real invested in this search? They aren't complaining. They are all eagerly helping and don't want to stop. I guess it's all in the attitude, and I'd take theirs over yours anytime.

[NittanyLion]

I admire any climber who attempts who does not put others in harms way.

And which climbers would those be?

[Man50D]

The court of law is for punishing people for their actions and we have specific laws for drunk drivers and speeders. While I have no sympathy for them, you are implying with your argument, that rescue should not be attempted until the cause of the accident is determined. You assume in your argument that all/most boaters and drivers being rescued are drunks and speeders. I very much doubt that is the case, perhaps some statistics to prove this claim by you would be in order. Where did I ever say that no one should be held accountable for breaking the law?

You need to read my previous post to you again. I am implying nothing. I am outright stating these recreational climbers knew exactly the consequences involved and ignored the fact they would also put others in danger for their own satisfaction. Simply rescuing these types of people without any consequences only encourages more people to do the same and put more lives at unnecessary risk.

You assume in your argument that all/most boaters and drivers being rescued are drunks and speeders.

The only assumption is the one you make by misinterpreting my comment. The mountain climbers behavior is at least as risky as anyone who is speeding or DUI while boating or driving if not more so and yet the climbers are not held accountable for their actions.

And, if the rescuers were really hellbent on putting their lives in jeopardy, they would have been on that mountain the next day and every day after, regardless of weather conditions.

Thank you for providing an example of how you completely miss the point. The issue isn't the recklessness of the rescuers but is that of the three recreational mountain climbers!

Note also that the families were not on tv crying, asking why rescue was not being attempted. They understood and said that the lives of the rescuers were just as important as their lost loved ones, and didn't want anyone to take any unnecessary risks.

Thank you for example #2. It isn't the families of the recreational mountain climber consideration for the safety of the rescuers that is in question. The issue is of the consideration for the rescuers by the climbers themselves!

[TWfromTEXAS]

No, you made a stupid, no fact comment so that you could say "I've been saying that" if it panned out. Now that it's proven wrong don't try to change the subject.

[freedomlover]

"We could talk about Miss USA losing her crown then."
-----
Well then she needs to get to the dentist in a hurry!

[cajungirl]

LOL! Now don't go getting carried away.

[cajungirl]

Now that is funny!

[cajungirl]

I am going to take a wild guess and you have to tell me if I am right.

YOU ARE A CPA, A TAX ACCOUNTANT.

Mr H? Is that you? BTW everyone here took that big deduction that you would not let me take! Tell me you are really Man50D,,I know you are!

[laconic]

I"m not trying to change any subject, stop trying to justify your name-calling and casting of aspersions. What I raised was a legitimate question about what has turned into a nationwide media event. It has happened with the Runaway Bride and countless others. Anyone who is not a skeptic these days lives in Wonderland.

[ShadowDancer]

ROTFL. My kids used to love that show.

[L,TOWM]

Columbus never would have sailed in Hurricane season.
Chuck Yeager would have stuck to driving his car after completing his sentence for drunk driving.

Yep. Reading these threads is an amazing exercise, alright.

[Man50D]

You are exactly where you should be, sitting in a chair and typing.

Interesting you make this statement by doing the same thing.

Mr. Peeples. Don't ever do anything that could cause problems for others, like going over the speed limit, eating at Taco Bell, going to an Amusement Park and getting on the roller coaster, anything fun that might also involve some risk that would require rescue.

By all means let's violate the law and put other people in danger just to have some fun. Eating at a restaurant or riding a roller aren't done purposely to face a dangerous situation as the mountain climbers intended to do by climbing the much more dangerous north face of an 11,000 foot mountain in December.

I guess just as long as you don't have any fun doing whatever risk taking you do is all right by you.

As I have already stated in several post on this thread taking risks is fine so long as it doesn't endanger other people.

Have you noticed that all of the rescuers sound real invested in this search? They aren't complaining. They are all eagerly helping and don't want to stop.

Have you noticed the rescuers don't encourage people to engage in dangerous behavior that endangers other lives? Of course they don't complain and are eagerly helping because they are thinking of someone else's lives unlike the recreational climbers.

I guess it's all in the attitude, and I'd take theirs over yours anytime.

I'll take the attitude of rescuers who don't consider only themselves over someone such as yourself and the climbers who prefer to put their personal satisfaction ahead of safety for other people.

[Man50D]

LOL! Now don't go getting carried away.

Don't worry. I won't get carried away by endangering other lives to climb the more dangerous side of an 11,000 foot mountain in December, encountering blizzards with winds that reached 100+ mph and potential avalanches. Apparently you think that is very reasonable and prudent behavior.

[Nasty McPhilthy]

“And the difference between flying to the moon and climbing mountains is only one of degree; ultimately both activities are a benefit to society.”

Don’t stop there. Elaborate on the benefits to society that we gain from yet another ascension of Mt. Hood. It’s not like it hasn’t been done before. As a matter of fact, I wish I had a crisp, new one-hundred dollar bill for each and every time it has been done. And before you blast back that it was prep for an assault on Everest, that one has been climbed a few times, too. What more can we expect to gain?

“No, but I'll pay for the emergency response teams who have to scrape you off the brick wall, put you in a MedEvac, fly you to the hospital, etc. That's part of the cost of living in a free society.”

Well, maybe. How ‘bout this one: Live Free, Die Free.

[NittanyLion]

Don’t stop there. Elaborate on the benefits to society that we gain from yet another ascension of Mt. Hood.

You don't think there's a societal benefit from risk taking? People who climb mountains and those who launch new businesses are different only in the way they choose to pursue their passion. You could try to prevent risky activities, but on the whole that will result in a net loss to society.

[Lazamataz]

I'm tired of hearing about 9-1-1 calls to Robert Paul Reyes'
household. He knows he's taking a big risk going home every night. This clown calls 9-1-1 whenever ANY criminal breaks in to his house. I think it's about time government starts charging to respond to people's houses like his. I'm sick of hearing about his wife's rape and armed robberies at his house.

[Nasty McPhilthy]

If it hasn’t been done before, and the guaranteed benefit to society is obvious, then go for it. I love to celebrate the achievements of brave individuals as much as the next person does.

You fail to address the question of what benefits we were to gain from the three climbers we are talking about on this thread. What scientific data were they prepared to gather? As I pointed out, and you choose to ignore, is that it has been done many times. There climb wasn’t inspired by a desire to further knowledge. It was am attempt at self-gratification. Plain & Simple.