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To: spunkets; All

BTW, I notice that you conveniently left out the scriptures spoken by Jesus Christ Himself, namely these:

"...He that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed on the only begotten Son of God..."

Jesus Christ also said, "Ye must be born again."

He that is not born again, "cannot see the kingdom of God."

Jesus Christ said all of these things.

Read John chapter 3 to see all of these words of His.

In short, if an atheist does not believe in God, how can that atheist believe in the only begotten Son of God, who is God incarnate? They can't.

Jesus Christ said that if one does not even believe in Him, they are "...condemned already." Condemned to where?

Hell.

Sorry to burst your bubble. I don't know who is teraching you your doctrine, but it is time to get your doctrine elsewhere - like from the Bible.

/smiling.


53 posted on 11/30/2006 3:50:39 PM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist (Keep working! Welfare cases and their liberal enablers are counting on you!)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
"BTW, I notice that you conveniently left out the scriptures spoken by Jesus Christ Himself,"

I gave His fundamental statement, to which all other statements are to be referenced to. Notice that the condition given in Matt 12:32 requires a judgement, a judgement of the Holy Spirit. a spirit is not some supernatural thing. It refers to all those htings which make up the self, or person. In particular here, it regards those elemnets of the person which are values, or things which are valued.

Notice that those quotes from John 3 that you gave are all contained and summarized within the following verse, John 3:6
"Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the spirit gives birth to spirit."

One is not born with a spirit. That has to be developed making judgements. Those are always the individual judgements one makes that determines ones values. The flesh is simply a machine that supports the functions of mind and personhood. Until the judgemnets are made, the person, or self doesn't exist. The spirit must be born of one's mind, which is one's spirit.

"In short, if an atheist does not believe in God, how can that atheist believe in the only begotten Son of God, who is God incarnate? They can't. "

The only important judgements to be made regard the Holy Spirit as a reference. In particular, those things that make up the spirit that are values, and things valued. Those are aquired by an individual by making judgements and decisions. The reference for the judgement spoken of in Matt 12:32 are the values and things valued by the Holy Spirit. It is a simple comparison and only through that comparison can one know God. There is no other way.

"Jesus Christ said that if one does not even believe in Him, they are "...condemned already." Condemned to where? Hell.

As above, Matt 12:32 is His fundamental statemnet. Taking your claim as the fundamental statemnt would result in God contradicting Himself, which He does not do. It says right there in Matt 12:32 that, "anyone that speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven". that's fundamental and covers all those who don't and simply don't believe He is God. It is enough for one to develop a spirit that resemble's God's in values and things valued. That is what He cares about.

"I don't know who is teraching you your doctrine, but it is time to get your doctrine elsewhere - like from the Bible. "

I don't believe in doctrine. Doctrine is the axiomatic claims of men. God is rational and came here to teach. I'll learn from him and use what He says as a reference to evalute anything anyone else says. That is the only way non-aximatic knowledge and understanding of His person, the Holy Spirit can be had. He teaches no axiomatic doctrine.

55 posted on 11/30/2006 6:11:04 PM PST by spunkets
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