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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
"Where did all the matter in the universe come from? Atheists have no idea."

That's not correct. They can claim what I posted above, which is true. The energy always existed.

"Did a Supreme Being create this matter?"

No. It always existed.

"If a Supreme Being did not create this matter, how then did it come into being?"

The energy always existed. Any change observed is due to natural forces. There's no way to distinguish scientifically, anything other than that.

"It is unknown if atheism is true or if creationism is true"

Both are false. It is impossible to prove a negative, which atheism is. They are simply relying on Occam's razor, the KISS principle which says anything invented beyond the simplest explanation is irrelevant and meaningless. The word creationism means belief in a Biblically literal creation. The term was coined ~1875. That is false on physical evidence.

The difference between what Occam's razor eliminates as irrelevant and meaningless, and Christianty, is that the person of God showed up and told us who He is and explained Himself. That is observable evidence. There is no other religion where the diety showed up in person. That includes the real possibility, that the appearence of this universe and all in it was His doing. That is His claim and He pointed out the dual. The dual is that one can't uncover from physical science, the presence of a prime mover. The cause for "creation" can not be distinguished simply by looking at the physical world.

One either believes what Jesus said, or they don't. It's that simple. All a Christian can say, is that they believe what He said. All an atheist can claim, is that they don't believe him, Occam's razor applies, and it is the same meaningless, irrelevant story equal in real value to all the other stories.

47 posted on 11/16/2006 5:32:13 PM PST by spunkets
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To: spunkets; All
The end point is this:

You, and no one else, can prove that matter has always existed, so why then do you claim that it has always existed? You can believe all you want that matter has always existed, but that doesn't make it so.

It is an unknown, as it is an unknown whether or not God created the universe. It is ridiculous to scientifically claim one unknown and discount the other unknown.

And neither can someone prove that matter was created by God and that He has always existed.

Both are just OPINIONS and a PHILOSOPHICAL belief system. (emphasis only).

If one cannot prove either, then what we have are creationists saying "We're right, and God does exist", and atheists saying "No, we're right, and God did not create the universe. There is no Supreme Being"

He said/she said, yada, yada, yada.

In the end, atheists act so enlightened and all, but they really don't know how we got here any more than creationists do.

It all comes down to faith.

Atheists believe by faith that God does not exist, and creationists believe by faith that God does exist...so...both groups are both in the 'faith camp,' so to speak.

That is the unvarnished truth, and atheists can recoil at that thought all they want, but that truth will continue to stare them in the face, whether they want it to or not.
48 posted on 11/16/2006 6:26:37 PM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist (Keep working! Welfare cases and their liberal enablers are counting on you!)
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