Posted on 08/05/2005 7:58:01 PM PDT by SeanEBoy
“This whole idea of personal autonomy, while I don’t think most conservatives hold that point of view, some do. They have this idea that people should be left alone. Be able to do whatever they want to do; government should keep our taxes down and keep our regulations low. We shouldn’t get involved in the bedroom and we shouldn’t get involved in cultural issues. You know, people should be able to do whatever they want. Well, that is not how traditional conservatives view the world, and I think most conservatives understand that individuals can’t go it alone; that there is no is no such society, that I’m aware of, where we’ve had radical individualism and that it succeeds as a culture.”—Rick Santorum, 04 August 2005, Morning Edition on NPR (emphasis added)
So God gives man free will, but Senator Santorum--or any good conservative, by his definition--wants it taken away.
You cannot legislate morality.
I would like to know from which Clause of the enumerated powers Mr. Santorum is deriving his authority to legislate the activities in people's bedrooms.
If Roe v. Wade was extra-constitutional, than so is each and every attempt by the Senate to put any curbs on abortion.
I thought conservatives used to think that government was the problem. Reagan must be dead after all.
Santorum has chosen his side.
I think that's an oversimplification of Law and Society.
Murder, robbery, rape is legislative morality.
That's for me, baby.
We gave them limited powers, and none of those extend to the bedroom.
Granted, so long as there is no harm to another person or their property and everyone has attained the age of majority. But even these rules can only be defined, imposed and enforced by the state or local governments.
If the Supremes are over-stepping their bounds, so is Mr. Santorum.
I agree with Santorum. If people want to call me a liberal or whatever, fine.
I think a lot of people on this forum confuse libertarianism with conservatism. Libertarianism is actually classic liberalism. So if anyone is a liberal (I guess in the best possible sense), it would be the libertarians. It's not conservative at all.
Santorum is here expressing the view that we live in a society. That's the conservative view. We are not just individuals here to look out for ourselves only.
The notion that "God gives man free will" is being confused with "all choices made with free will are equally valid and of benefit in a society".
There has never been a time in this country when morality hasn't been legislated. NEVER. It is NOT conservative to say that laws and morality are separate. If this is not a moral people, then it will cease to be a functioning republic in due time. Laws are a reflection of that.
I know many here won't agree, but this country has never been about prostitution and sodomy, and there have always been laws against those things in most parts of the country. You may disagree with that, but DON'T pretend that your view is the "conservative" view. What values are you trying to conserve? Conservatism is about conserving what is right and valuable in society, for the sake of society itself. Because the government impinges on that at nearly every turn, conservatives are naturally wary of government. But they aren't averse to moral law altogether.
What kind of society is it, with prostitutes and addicts on every corner, and no one allowed to say "boo"? Might be your vision of freedom, but this libertarian utopia is NOT a conservative vision. Santorum is right about that.
Lastly, on Roe v. Wade. It's not just extra-constitutional because there is no "right to abortion" in the constitution, it is wrong because there IS a God-given "right to life". Congress SHOULD be able to make laws regarding abortion, because there is a right to life no matter what state you live in. It IS the business of government when children are being slaughtered. That's one of the few things government is supposed to be good for.
"You cannot legislate morality."
Sorry, but our laws are nothing more than a codification of morality.
Conservatives trust "We the People" (i.e. a moral society), since "We the People" ARE supposed to be the government.
That's one of the biggest problems these days: it's supposed to be, but isn't anymore.
But they've always been around, and the rules have never been too strictly enforced. Whether in New York City or a small town in the mid-west I don't think anyone has ever had to look too hard to find a hooker.
I never said that any choice made with free-will is honkey-dorey, but if you're not hurting anyone else or his property, I don't care what you do.
And Congress has no authority to enforce any law outside of its jurisdiction. That's why "Laci and Connor's Law" is so ridiculous. Killing a pregnant women carries an extra penalty for the fetus. Fine. But only on federal property. So Mr. Santorum and his pals can restrict abortion, but only on federal property.
The Senate does not have the authority or ability to enforce God's Law.
But they've always been around, and the rules have never been too strictly enforced. Whether in New York City or a small town in the mid-west I don't think anyone has ever had to look too hard to find a hooker.
I never said that any choice made with free-will is honkey-dorey, but if you're not hurting anyone else or his property, I don't care what you do.
And Congress has no authority to enforce any law outside of its jurisdiction. That's why "Laci and Connor's Law" is so ridiculous. Killing a pregnant women carries an extra penalty for the fetus. Fine. But only on federal property. So Mr. Santorum and his pals can restrict abortion, but only on federal property.
The Senate does not have the authority or ability to enforce God's Law.
Santorum is a borderline RINO
That is exactly the American Liberal rationale for supporting the changes wrought by FDR in the American State through the New Deal.
The delusion that the People can do no wrong is fatal to a Constitutional republic, imho, and leads only to socialism.
You cannot identify conservative thought until you are able to separate your own personal values system from that of a moral society's. It may not matter to you if people aren't physically harming others or the property of others, but it mattered a great deal to the Founders and it matters to conservatives what KIND of people make up a society.
Crack being sold in pharmacies and prostitutes soliciting outside of schools (neither of which cause physical harm or harm property) harm SOCIETY itself. Once society starts declaring that sodomy is a RIGHT, it has strayed off a moral course and is headed towards destruction.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Quincy Adams
"Government is a contrivance of human wisdom to provide for human wants. These wants should be provided for, [including] the want of a sufficient restraint upon their passions." Edmund Burke, father of conservatism
What leads to socialism is when the People start getting the ability to vote themselves money from the public coffers, as Ben Franklin warned. But the People wanting to live in a moral and religious society, and wanting the laws to reflect morality, these are natural, necessary and right.
Now, prostitution in legal in Nevada, and while I've never been there, I'm pretty sure there are no cat houses next to the local elementary school. Again, this is where local control governs, and probably does it well.
My entire point is my separating my own value system from that of society's. I just want to separate yours and Santorum's too.
Society can't declare sodomy a right. But neither can the state declare it unlawful. There is no "compelling interest." Just because something is a sin, doesn't mean it's a crime.
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