Posted on 02/04/2005 12:27:30 PM PST by dukeman
Their heads swimming in despair over the events since November 2nd, many Far Lefties have reached a fork in the road. Do they flee to Canada (or hopefully even further away) or do they stay and fight President Bush (Chimp, Shrub, or simply *, as they call him)? And if they stay, what does "fight" really mean?
There are three things to remember while reading the montage of DU threads set forth below:
1. They believe they're living in 1930's Germany.
2. They have a breathtakingly arrogant view of their importance.
3. Everyone else is stupid.
After 35 years of activisim, here are my personal feelings
Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Thu Feb-03-05 10:54 AM
Original message
After 35 years of activisim, here are my personal feelings.
People have called me quitter, coward, etcetera, for finally throwing in the towel and getting the Hell out of Dodge City. This isn't exactly a Manifesto, but it's what I feel, here and now.
I have worked for change, endangered my life for the country, fought the good fight for 35 long years.
Enough is enough. We have lost. When something like last night's mini-Nuremburg Rally [State of the Union Address] can go on and the streets aren't full of people protesting it; in point of fact, people are LAUDING it: GAME OVER.
I'm leaving because...I firmly believe the Revolution is coming, I'm too old for the barricades, and I don't want to watch any of my children suffer privation or die.
This is what I believe will happen.
First, the Recession, then the Depression, then Conflict. Too many guns, too many flakes (WITH or WITHOUT guns), and too many GOD DAMNED FOOLS.
This happens once in a while. Countries DO NOT live forever. Lincoln was right: we are being destroyed by factions, a form of political suicide. I just choose not to be here when it happens.
To paraphrase Larry Niven: Some things are just so terrible that the only solution is to be somewhere else when they happen.
Pegleg Thd (1000+ posts) Thu Feb-03-05 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. Like I said in a eulogy
I wrote for my mother's funeral. Because of those who are allowing our country to be destroyed from within only the dead will be the lucky ones. The rest of us are going to be put thru a living hell. [Can any of you imagine saying this at your mother's funeral? Incredible!]
KoKo01 (1000+ posts) Thu Feb-03-05 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
2. Are you leaving
DU, the US or Politics as a whole? If it's the US where have you found that will work for you?
Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Thu Feb-03-05 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Canada.
They're not perfect, but they have bridges and tunnels to block and keep the fascists on this side of the water.
They'll have to go all the way to Minnesota to cross on land, and that's 1000 miles from nowhere as far as Canada goes. Like Napoleon marching on Moscow. [Ha! As if we'd go after him]
MadHound (1000+ posts) Thu Feb-03-05 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
3. Hey friend, I won't insult you, in fact I understand your POV
And if I didn't have so many ties to my life here, I would probably be joining you. But those ties do bind, so I will be staying and fighting.
And quite frankly, I'm not getting any younger myself, thus I hope this madness enters it's fighting phase soon. Quite frankly I think that it will turn out to be like the Civil War was in Missouri, an anarchistic, bloody war, with little direction, and even smaller mercy.
gorbal (581 posts) Thu Feb-03-05 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
6. I don't feel we are loosing
We may be loosing in America, but around the world good things are happening. People are seeing the bad example america is spreading around the world and no longer trying to emulate it.
truthseeker1 (1000+ posts) Thu Feb-03-05 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
8. I'm right there with you
Luckily we don't have ties that bind us and it's a sad decision to make, but we are getting out while we can. (Canada bound)
TNDemo (1000+ posts) Thu Feb-03-05 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
10. I have been thinking along these lines too.
Age 50 is not far away. Maybe I'm just getting older and realizing that I really can't change anything. It is all much bigger than me. I was recently reading Undaunted Courage (Lewis & Clark) and The Oath: A Surgeon Under Fire (Chechen doctor during two wars with Russia) and I just kept thinking about how it is the same old crap - here and all over the world. The human race evidently does not learn but repeats these same mistakes and atrocities century after century. I have lately begun to not watch TV or listen to radio shows that are just going to get me fired up and irritated. Maybe I am just becoming the proverbial ostrich but I can have much more impact on the little world around me (and that of course will be the ones that do remember me) than trying to change the big picture. Maybe that's for the younger folks. I have never been so appalled at the state of America and how the government does these horrific things and passes glaringly bad law through congress and no one cares enough to protest, even verbally. I worry sometimes about staying here too long. I am making sure we all have passports just in case.
Blue State Native (1000+ posts) Thu Feb-03-05 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
16. First, thanks for your 35 year fight for your /our Country.
Second, I don't blame you for leaving, I would if I could, financially I can't. Thanks to bush** since my husband is 53 and after paying into SS for 35 years, I guess we will be reduced to working until the day we die... I say get out while you can. You are one of the lucky ones. I wish only the best for you.
WetBarNone (9 posts) Thu Feb-03-05 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
18. I'm not buying it
This country has been through far worse and it was just 4+ years ago we owned the White House and we owned congress for 40 years in the last ten years. Why give up so easily?
We still have the FDR statue to circle around when the going gets tough! [BWAHAHAHAHAHA!]
apple_ridge (145 posts) Thu Feb-03-05 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
23. I see the same future as you do and have been trying to
convince my wife of the same. Hopefully, I can find a way out of here before this country plunges in to civil war.
bluestateguy (1000+ posts) Fri Feb-04-05 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
24. Please stay registered to vote in the US
The Right likes to make lots and lots of babies and we need every vote we can get. Keep this in mind, as the US is the most powerful nation on earth economically and militarily, a change of government within the US has enormous impact around the world. So please be kind enough to give us your vote every four years. Anyway, good luck.
------------------------------
There is now only one SOLUTION: REVOLUTION
In Truth We Trust (693 posts) Wed Feb-02-05 11:37 PM
Original message
There is now only one SOLUTION:
REVOLUTION!!!
whistle (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-02-05 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'm with you on that
rucky (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-02-05 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. I thought the Bushies would be first to come up with the "final solution"
AntiCoup2K4 (1000+ posts) Thu Feb-03-05 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #3
35. Considering that they funded Uncle Adolf's rise to power
...they were the first. And the Bush Criminal Empire's objective has never ceased to be about global fascism. It's just now they have given up all pretense of anybody else doing it.
In Truth We Trust (693 posts) Wed Feb-02-05 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Me too unfortunately, however at every milestone I held out hope.
The convention, the debates, the recount , 12/13, 1/6, etc., etc. But at each turn the MSM is missing, the DINO's are complicit and the rethugs keep on their criminally unconscionable behavior. The poor and middle class are being so f***** it's not funny.
SnoopDog (278 posts) Thu Feb-03-05 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Even a steam engine has to boil enough water....
before it produces the energy to move that locomotive.
The water is boiling, the steam is building.
We, as true patriotic Americans will not take to much more of this.
We have a winning team called America but somehow the 'c' team is on the playing field.
Perty soon, the varsity will take the field again. And, it will not be in 2008.
LittleClarkie (1000+ posts) Thu Feb-03-05 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. I smell a Les Miserables moment
"The signal! We have it! Revolution!"
Meanwhile, among the rank and file, "What was that?" "Oh, nothing, just those darned college students again."
SoCalifer (165 posts) Wed Feb-02-05 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
11. I Have Felt This Way
For a long time now too.. *waves hi at the nsa geeks*
In Truth We Trust (693 posts) Thu Feb-03-05 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Those "NSA Geeks" are people too and I hold out hope that they are
intelligent enough and patriotic enough to be concerned as well.
"Agent Mike" please don't send in the goon squad for me. I have a wife with MS and three boy's, one of whom is mentally retarded. They need me! Send the goon squad for the greedy bastards that are truly ruining America with their immoral policies and total lack of justice.
BrklynLiberal (1000+ posts) Thu Feb-03-05 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
15. Perhaps the answer lies in the idea that Revolutions are not usually
fought by the middle class. When enough of us are pushed down out of the middle class, and are suffering the hardships of life in the lower class, we WILL rise up and take part in a true revolution.
Skeptic2 (12 posts) Thu Feb-03-05 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #15
25. Actually...
...that's not true. The leaders of most 20th-century revolutions, including those who official goal was to destroy the middle class, were usually middle-class or rich themselves.
LittleClarkie (1000+ posts) Thu Feb-03-05 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
16. Why are you still sitting there in front of your computer?
What if they held a revolution... and nobody came.
In Truth We Trust (693 posts) Thu Feb-03-05 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. Good question L. C. I do what I can short of illegal acts unless of course
you count that spray painting thing during the campaign. Just kidding "Agent Mike".
But as an earlier reply suggested there are "boiling points" that societies and individuals reach at which time an explosion of energy and change occurs. I have reached my boiling point. [So what- write another e-mail?]
driver8 (710 posts) Thu Feb-03-05 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
19. I'm waiting for...
EVOLUTION!!!!!
I am hoping something will evolve from this piece of **** we call a "president."
Name removed (0 posts) Thu Feb-03-05 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
20. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
In Truth We Trust (693 posts) Thu Feb-03-05 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. If you are a student of history then you don't need me to tell you over
a public forum "when and where". You just need to know your enemy and his strengths and weaknesses and his SOURCE OF POWER.
demwing (1000+ posts) Thu Feb-03-05 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
29. Revolution must
be preceded by a symbolic moment where the people realize that a movement has begun. [Funny, I feel a movement coming on every time I read a DU thread!]
A Boston Tea Party moment.
Something non-violent, but very agressive. Something that if highly symbolic, but not so symbolic as to be ineffective.
The rituals of burning your draft card or your bra come to mind, but those acts were too decentralized, and too radicalized.
I suggest a mass burning of the Patriot Act, in a Southern capitol, on the 4th of July.
Can we make it happen?
SoCalifer (165 posts) Thu Feb-03-05 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. Catalyst
I agree demwing. History shows us that before conflicts such as wars and revolutions can happen, there needs to be a catalyst that ignites enough public outrage to perpetually fuel such an act. These catalysts can either be large instant ones or a breaking point of enough suffering from enough people.
I like your idea of mass burning of the Patriot Act. And that leads me to a question. Is it unlawful to burn an effigy of lets say Bush, Asscroft, Cheney, Rumsfield, etc.? I think in areas not favoring these characters more value can be had if while burning the Patriot Act, these effigies were placed on top of the pile with signs around their neck saying something like "anti u.s. constitution."
If something like a revolution is to occur (peaceful or otherwise) and hope to be successful, a point of what I refer to as "critical mass" has to be achieved. And it is not until that point is reached with the populace, will your action have enough fuel to perpetually feed upon itself insuring inevitable victory.
Nimrod (653 posts) Thu Feb-03-05 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
33. I think it will take something catastrophic
My guess is a second Great Depression that makes the first one look like a minor glitch. The dollar will simply have to cease to exist. Money is what drives this nation in specific and the world in general. Money is how we are kept AND keep ourselves under control. What we are going to have to have is every single family from $100,000 a year on down suddenly destitute with no possibility of buying food next week and absolutely nothing left to lose.
::shrugs:: Either that or * will drop the wrong bomb on the wrong nation and we'll get nuked until our shadows glow. That might work too.
------------------------------
Is it time to GET WHILE THE GETTING'S GOOD?
SmartBomb (93 posts) Thu Feb-03-05 11:02 AM
Original message
Is it time to GET WHILE THE GETTING'S GOOD?
It's obvious the will of the people is not a factor in the Bush agenda. He pretty much stands there and tells us what's going to happen next, like it or not. He doesn't care what you think or how you feel, he is without a doubt, a dictator.
Lately the hairs on the back of my neck have been standing up. Do I take heed? Are you torn between your rational side; "relax, It could never happen here", and your paranoid side; "Get out before it's too late!"?
gorbal (581 posts) Thu Feb-03-05 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
1. Nah
Let's not be over paranoid, they like us that way. Chances are you'll be struck by lightning or die in a car crash before homeland security picks you up and holds you for questioning.
Let's not let them rule us by fear.
SmartBomb (93 posts) Thu Feb-03-05 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Another question
Do you think this is as bad as it's going to get? Because as far as I'm concerned, it borders on the intolerable right now.
Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Thu Feb-03-05 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
3. Uhh, YES???
If you need any further basis for comparison, try re-watching "Schindler's List," "The Pianist," or "Life is Beautiful."
They probably won't have Ovens here, but do you feel like waiting around to find out? Besides, you're just as dead if a winger shoots you on the street or a Fascist Government gasses you in a camp.
SmartBomb (93 posts) Thu Feb-03-05 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Don't they also win if they bankrupt me and strand me in their
Orwellian Police State?
gorbal (581 posts) Thu Feb-03-05 11:31 AM,br> Response to Reply #7
13. Did they do it already?
Republicans are probably loving the idea of a mass Democratic migration to Canada. I'm sticking around to fight the good fight until I know it's fruitless, because the only way to get them out is to vote them out.
leanin_green (167 posts) Thu Feb-03-05 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #13
27. I'm stayin' too, but. . .
it's clear you haven't figured out what that fight will entail. Don't close your eyes to the truth of the 04 election. Your vote means nothing anymore. It can be negated and manipulated by the dick-tator. Our votes are a thing of nostalgia now. I'm not sure what the fight will be or how it will present itself, but it's coming, and it's not at the voting booth.
smirkymonkey (1000+ posts) Thu Feb-03-05 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
24. Yep, that's why I am getting together my paperwork to apply
for Italian citizenship. I want to be ready when I feel we have reached the point of no return.
It doesn't have to be concentration camps and ovens. There are things worse than death - like living in a hellish nighmare that won't end and from which there is no escape.
fit4life (170 posts) Thu Feb-03-05 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
5. I don't think so.
I feel sorry for the first idiot who comes for me. I'm not much of a pacifist when it comes to protecting my family and myself.
KayLaw (1000+ posts) Thu Feb-03-05 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. I worry about that
Isn't there a part of Patriot Act II that we're not allowed to read? I wonder if we'll be allowed to keep our weapons.
CrispyQGirl (1000+ posts) Thu Feb-03-05 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
9. I think it will be more like a return to slavery.
We will work for free for the corporate/state masters. We will have no rights, no health care, no recourse & no income, no free time. Our corporate masters will house us in 'dormitories' where we will be served sub-standard food, & have only corporate approved entertainment. Of course, by then the 40 hour work week will be long gone & we will be so tired that sleep will be our best entertainment -- & our only escape. And we will be the fortunate ones. The others will go into the military industrial complex where they will risk their 'meaningless' lives for the corporate state in never-ending war to take over the world.
It's very bleak. I don't have much hope. But then I think that at some point, the pendulum has to start swinging back the other way.
Heavy sigh . . . time to go read some fiction. [Don't bother. Just re-read your post]
autorank (1000+ posts) Thu Feb-03-05 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
10. You sound like the religious right during Clinton.
One of another of them announcend that they were turning their back on America and would be leaving or aggregating in obscure locales to lead a private Xtian life.
While I understand your paranoid thoughts (that's one side of my response) the other side is thinking, knock it off or leave. This is a real drag, particularly when we're in an epic struggle.
Good luck with your decision but there's a reason you call it your 'paranoid side;' IT IS PARANOID.
SmartBomb (93 posts) Thu Feb-03-05 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. Two little things
1. While Clinton's character may have been an issue for the fundies, his policies did not spell a change in their right to live and worship as they saw fit. Bush, on the other hand, is making radical fundamental changes to the fabric of our nation.
2. If, as you say, we are in an epic struggle, then things are indeed dire. Maybe I'm not so paranoid after all.
autorank (1000+ posts) Thu Feb-03-05 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. My comment is on 'leaving.'
I'm sick of hearing people talk about leaving. What a team (oh, this is getting really tough, I think I'll quit). Just do it, go and don't waste time on an activist board being a downer. This has nothing to do with accepting reality...* and company are utterly dreadful and dangerous. They must be resisted at multiple levels and intensely.
Go ahead an leave, any of you. Just remember, this is a global problem. * will be with you where ever you are!!!
SmartBomb (93 posts) Thu Feb-03-05 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. Thanks for informing me what attitudes are considered acceptable on this
board.
I believe in fighting. I believe in fighting for a good, equitable, and safe quality of life for my children. Not, for some romanticized ideal of nation. All things change, and all good things come to an end. That's reality. When America reaches that turning point, and we're pretty close now, it's time to move on. Call me a coward, I'll call you a fool.
Last Lemming (295 posts) Thu Feb-03-05 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
11. And if you are a young black male
Auntie Laura has just the program for you.
Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Thu Feb-03-05 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
14. I am not personally afraid, but I no longer like being associated with
this country.
TheGoldenRule (211 posts) Thu Feb-03-05 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
21. Wanting to get the HELL OUT is NOT paranoid!
And I really resent it when people say that. To those of us that have thought about leaving it's more a point of saying enough is enough!
Do you stay until your house is worthless and you can't give it away because the country is in a deep depression?
Do you leave the house and just get the hell out before every right you have is gone and you can't leave even if you wanted to?
Most importantly, I have a disabled child. Will they come for him some day because he's not perfect?!
Leaving is looking to be the ONLY option we will soon have to say F NO to this ****ing evil regime!
Stirk (238 posts) Thu Feb-03-05 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
26. I'm not leaving. When I hear Miami Cubans talk about deposing
Castro, I think, "you had your chance to do something about it, and you ran off to save your own ass instead". Same with these Chalabi-esque "exiles".
I don't want to be like that. I'm not leaving.
dave123williams (1000+ posts) Thu Feb-03-05 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
29. New Zealand's supposed to be quite nice. Very progressive. [And how about North Korea? Very red- the kind you like- and they really, really hate America!]
These people are beyond pathetic. I'm speechless!
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!? The left has effing lost its mind. Mini-Nuremburg? Thats seriously demented. This person ought to seek professional help.
They really are something, aren't they? I recommend you nose around DU a little bit, just for laughs. But always shower afterwards....
A total and absolute lie. However, lets talk about the Kennedy sympathizer Joe Sr., which is historical fact.
Tin foil makes a great hat and keeps out the government mind control rays.
Too bad we can't have a "live in a death camp for a week" holiday...
We invite all these leftist idiots to show their solidarity for the oppressed, and then we inadvertantly lock the doors and lose the key for an extra week.
Two weeks in the care of sadists should cure them of any misconceptions they have about "suffering" and "hardship" in our great nation.
They don't know the meaning of poverty, oppression, and the deep seated yearning for freedom.
Post Election Selection Trauma
Maybe they're just wincing over a price hike at Starbuck's.
Funny stuff..... Thanks for spending the time at DU...I don't go near the place.
Yes, I'd like to have the exclusive tinfoil contract over on DU. What kills me is how momentous they think their "work" on DU is. These are serious loons!
Wow! Do you think maybe these people's "logical thought process" gene was damaged before birth by their parents/grandparents use of mind altering substances? I have never seen such ....
Maybe we could start a "Lib To Canada" charity! They would only have to agree to renounce their American citizenship and hand in their US passport at the border.. and NEVER come back.
I try to resist visiting, but it's like rubber-necking as you pass a car accident on the side of the road. I think I need help....
I'm picturing armchair dissenters who are so beside themselves they've painted themselves into a corner!
Anyway... poor devils may not be aware of Canadian provincial parties with plans to join the USA (see http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1326295/posts)
Hmmm. If your lefties are leaving, perhaps its time I invested in some property in the States. South Carolina being my favoured location.
Regards, Ivan
C'mon over! Water's fine!!!
I'll wait for a while - I just want to make sure Hillary won't become President before I make an investment of that kind.
She might take away any property I'd own "in the name of the common good", you see.
Regards, Ivan
Heh!
Don't worry, she'll have to triangulate herself into a Republican to be electable in 2008. And the Deaniacs who will soon be running the Rat party will never put the "right winger" Hitlery on their ballot.
ROFL!
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