Actress Brooke Shields kills 140 of her very own Children by undergoing 7 IVF Treatments

Various | 07.25.04

[Coleus]

I haven't seen the movie, if you ever come across it, let me know when it's on hbo.

[Salvation]

Wonderful collection of articles.

[Salvation]

Have you become secularized?

[WV910]

Not a Catholic, skimmed the article.

What's wrong with IVF if only, say, 3 embryos are made at a time and they're all implanted?

If you conceive naturally, there's no guarantee that you'll have a baby 9 months later. Sometimes things go wrong.

If you implant 3 embryos, chances are at least one of them will "take." Maybe all 3 will :) Either way, you're not freezing them for years at a time only to have them destroyed down the road.

[cyngust1]

Obviously someone who is insensitive, uninformed, and stupid. Also, someone who is obviously a parent taking his fertility for granted. The babies that are "murdered" during an IVF cycle are often embryos that would probably not have survived in a natural cycle. Doctors examine and transfer the best of the embryos to increase the chances of success. According to his logic, I have a lot of friends that horribly committed murder after they miscarried. According to his interpretation, I should be punished for having my period because I am expelling a potential baby.
I have had too many people tell me that it is "God's will" that I cannot have children. I cannot believe that it is "God's will" for a capable, loving mother to go childless, yet it is "God's will" to allow babies be born to crack-addicted and abusive women.
If I were to follow this man's teachings and advice, I should have taken my life four years ago when I was diagnosed with infertility. Since my husband and I cannot procreate, than we have no purpose on this earth.
This technology exists for a reason. It is to help the MILLIONS of childless parents have a family. Just because this poor man is raising his herd of hardheaded, one-sided, biased children, does not mean that the rest of us can't strive to have children with independent thought.

[Raquel]

Dear Coleus:

Great post! I am surprised by some of the reactions here at FR. If someone is against abortion, they must be against IVF treatments as well. The issue here is the embryo. The embryo is a result of conception, any destruction of an embryo is immoral and wrong. It's really quite simple. Each embryo has a soul and is a gift from God. People who promote abortion (either at fertility clinics are abortion mills) are just plain selfish. They don't care about the life of an embryo (even if it is their own) because he/she is not staring them in the face or he/she cannot physically beg for mercy. Me me me me me me me... I want a baby... I don't want a baby... I want reproductive choice... I want to be comfortable... I want to be cured of my illness at any cost... I want... I want... I want... Selfishness pure and simple.

I do have one complaint...

"Our Church stands squarely on the side of the dignity of the human person, and we can be grateful that the Church does not hesitate to speak out-oftentimes in the face of fierce criticism."

I had 16 years of a Catholic education, and most of the things I know now about chastity, reproduction and marriage, I've learned very recently, and only because I have sought out the information. There is a liberal/progressive wing to the Catholic Church that really should be unearthed and removed.

I was born in 1969, and was practically raised with the sexual revolution contraception and abortion. Aside from my parents, EVERYONE, was telling me to have premarital sex, just be careful. I wish the Church was more outspoken at a time when I really needed it. What I've learned now is that contraception and the sexual revolution ruined my marriage and almost my life.

Please keep spreading the Word, no matter how many detractors.

God bless you.

[Coleus]

Croatia's Catholic Bishops Warn In Vitro Fertilization is “a Serious Crime”

[Coleus]

Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

DONUM VITAE 

Instruction on Respect for Human Life in Its Origin and on the Dignity of Procreation
Replies to Certain Questions of the Day
 February 22, 1987

Donum Vitae Instruction on respect for human life

US Catholic Bishops - Pro-Life Activities -- The Gift of Life (Donum Vitae) 1987

Lifeissues.net -- The Gift of Life (Donum Vitae): Preface

Catholic Culture : Document Library : Donum Vitae (Respect for Human Life

[Raquel]

Dear Coleus,

I didn't expect so many negative replies to you. I thought you were right on target!

[beezdotcom]

Now please, go away. We will never agree.

Begging pardon, but I think Coleus certainly has a right to be on this thread, since Coleus started it.

[beezdotcom]

I pray to God that nobody is judged by this rigid a standard when the time comes. If so, no person on earth will be saved.

Our actions WILL indeed be judged according to standards we can never meet as humans. Thankfully, our JUDGEMENT has already been satisfied by Christ. So, what was your point again?

[beezdotcom]

I honestly think there's nothing we can do about it (IVF,fertility pills,etc). After hearing the response to Ronald Reagan Jr.'s speech and hearing John Gambling this morning, stem cell research and cloning are as good as here.

There's a number of moral issues I don't see being reversed anytime soon on a national level. I think the salient point is that just because the world espouses something doesn't mean that Christians have to. Or should. It's still worth discussing.

As an aside, I think we're heading for a period of Christianity in this country that's going to seem a lot closer to the "lions and the Colisuem" than it's been in a while. And it will start with the prosecution of Christians for "hate speech"...

[beezdotcom]

According to his logic, I have a lot of friends that horribly committed murder after they miscarried. According to his interpretation, I should be punished for having my period because I am expelling a potential baby.

I must have missed that part.

If I were to follow this man's teachings and advice, I should have taken my life four years ago when I was diagnosed with infertility. Since my husband and I cannot procreate, than we have no purpose on this earth.

I _really_ must have missed THAT part.

[Hildy]

Why did you resurrect a thread from last year?

[cyborg]

agreed

[beezdotcom]

Why did you resurrect a thread from last year?

Because I'm apparently an idiot. I clicked a link to this thread from ANOTHER current thread, and didn't notice how old THIS thread was as I started reading through it.

Classic newbie mistake...which means I should KNOW better. Sorry.

[petitfour]

Did conception occur before or after the embryos were created? I need a biology lesson on this, I guess. Is it immoral to have sexual intercourse and not to get pregnant?

Brooke Shields' baby is beautiful from what I've seen in the grocery store check-out lines.

[beezdotcom]

Did conception occur before or after the embryos were created?

Conception is defined as the fertilization of an egg to create an embryo. The Catholic church recognizes the embryo as a human life.

Is it immoral to have sexual intercourse and not to get pregnant?

I'm not Catholic, but inside of marriage and done without contraceptives, no, that wouldn't be immoral. I suspect any other permutation might not be acceptable to Catholics, and other denominations may "split the vote" on some permutations...

[petitfour]

From the article: "And, following a miscarriage three months later, it took six further attempts with the treatment before the 38-year-old finally conceived."

That quote is the reason I asked. The wording suggests that conception occured when the embryo successfully implanted. So, the embryo was in existence but was not in the right place. Aren't there women who have fertilized eggs that do not implant properly? Or am I a confused person? (I probably sound pretty stupid, considering we've birthed eight babies the old-fashioned way.)

[beezdotcom]

The wording suggests that conception occured when the embryo successfully implanted.

Good catch - it's poor wording on the part of the article. The actual definition is "Formation of a viable zygote by the union of the male sperm and female ovum; fertilization".

Aren't there women who have fertilized eggs that do not implant properly?

Think of this condition as an "early miscarriage". In fact, this happens more often than not under normal circumstances. This differs from abortion in the sense that no deliberate action was taken to CAUSE the embryo not to attach (barring ingestion of abortifacient drugs).