Free Republic
Browse · Search
Smoky Backroom
Topics · Post Article

To: Virginia-American
Consider the case of sickle-cell and thalassemia.

You really need to find some other argument for evolution. Any way you call it sickle cell anemia is not beneficial. It has not created anything which is beneficial in an organism. You need to create things to get from a bacteria to a human, an illness creates only destruction. And also let me note that many survive malaria without carrying this trait. In fact, if it was prevalent in any large amount of any population it would kill up to a quarter (that's called genetics, a well proven scientific fact) of the children of those carrying this trait. So yes, more people have survived without this trait than with it.

2,114 posted on 08/09/2003 9:31:15 PM PDT by gore3000 (Intelligent people do not believe in evolution.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2046 | View Replies ]


To: gore3000
I didn't see an "illogical poster" clause in there, did you?
2,116 posted on 08/09/2003 9:32:26 PM PDT by ALS (http://designeduniverse.com Featuring original works by FR's finest . contact me to add yours!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2114 | View Replies ]

To: gore3000
Any way you call it sickle cell anemia is not beneficial. It has not created anything which is beneficial in an organism.

In the heterozygous condition, it does offer some protection from malaria.

2,119 posted on 08/09/2003 9:34:25 PM PDT by RightWingNilla
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2114 | View Replies ]

To: gore3000
..Any way you call it sickle cell anemia is not beneficial. It has not created anything which is beneficial in an organism...

Then why do something like 20% of people in West Africa carry the gene?

You need to create things to get from a bacteria to a human, an illness creates only destruction

In this case the mutation causes an illness, and also prevents one.

In fact, if it was prevalent in any large amount of any population it would kill up to a quarter (that's called genetics, a well proven scientific fact) of the children of those carrying this trait.

Quite correct. (25% of the children of hetreozyotes whill be homozygous). So why does the gene persist in malaria country, but nowhere else? Could it be natural selection at work?

So yes, more people have survived without this trait than with it.

No-ones saying any differently - there are likely to be a lot of mechanisms protecting us from diseases; the hemoglobin-S is just one of them.

2,136 posted on 08/09/2003 9:59:19 PM PDT by Virginia-American
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2114 | View Replies ]

To: gore3000; All
Any way you call it sickle cell anemia is not beneficial. It has not created anything which is beneficial in an organism.

For those unfamiliar with this issue, I present the following essay. You be the judge.

A Mutation Story:

A gene known as HbS was the center of a medical and evolutionary detective story that began in the middle 1940s in Africa. Doctors noticed that patients who had sickle cell anemia, a serious hereditary blood disease, were more likely to survive malaria, a disease which kills some 1.2 million people every year. What was puzzling was why sickle cell anemia was so prevalent in some African populations.

How could a "bad" gene -- the mutation that causes the sometimes lethal sickle cell disease -- also be beneficial? On the other hand, if it didn't provide some survival advantage, why had the sickle gene persisted in such a high frequency in the populations that had it?

The sickle cell mutation is a like a typographical error in the DNA code of the gene that tells the body how to make a form of hemoglobin (Hb), the oxygen-carrying molecule in our blood. Every person has two copies of the hemoglobin gene. Usually, both genes make a normal hemoglobin protein. When someone inherits two mutant copies of the hemoglobin gene, the abnormal form of the hemoglobin protein causes the red blood cells to lose oxygen and warp into a sickle shape during periods of high activity. These sickled cells become stuck in small blood vessels, causing a "crisis" of pain, fever, swelling, and tissue damage that can lead to death. This is sickle cell anemia.

But it takes two copies of the mutant gene, one from each parent, to give someone the full-blown disease. Many people have just one copy, the other being normal. Those who carry the sickle cell trait do not suffer nearly as severely from the disease.

Researchers found that the sickle cell gene is especially prevalent in areas of Africa hard-hit by malaria. In some regions, as much as 40 percent of the population carries at least one HbS gene.

It turns out that, in these areas, HbS carriers have been naturally selected, because the trait confers some resistance to malaria. Their red blood cells, containing some abnormal hemoglobin, tend to sickle when they are infected by the malaria parasite. Those infected cells flow through the spleen, which culls them out because of their sickle shape -- and the parasite is eliminated along with them.

Scientists believe the sickle cell gene appeared and disappeared in the population several times, but became permanently established after a particularly vicious form of malaria jumped from animals to humans in Asia, the Middle East, and Africa.

In areas where the sickle cell gene is common, the immunity conferred has become a selective advantage. Unfortunately, it is also a disadvantage because the chances of being born with sickle cell anemia are relatively high.

For parents who each carry the sickle cell trait, the chance that their child will also have the trait -- and be immune to malaria -- is 50 percent. There is a 25 percent chance that the child will have neither sickle cell anemia nor the trait which enables immunity to malaria. Finally, the chances that their child will have two copies of the gene, and therefore sickle cell anemia, is also 25 percent. This situation is a stark example of genetic compromise, or an evolutionary "trade-off."

2,173 posted on 08/09/2003 10:56:20 PM PDT by Aracelis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2114 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Smoky Backroom
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson