How All Species Are Related Grows More Precise, Complex [Evolution]

Wall Street Journal (subscription required) ^ | 13 June 2002 | Sharon Begley

[PatrickHenry]

Family resemblance can indeed be elusive, or we wouldn't have "check the mailman" jokes. Scientists who try to infer who's related to whom among all creatures past and present can therefore be forgiven for taking 150 years to figure out this one: slime molds, mushrooms and other fungi are more closely related to you, me and other animals than they are to plants.

[ASA Vet]

It's only a matter of time before he joins "spiritoftruth" in the nether lands.
Even the supernatualists have to get fed up with the waste of space.

[gore3000]

Can you identify that exact number of species that have been deigned to be intelligently created?

All of them. Can you identify a single species which has been definitely created by evolution?

[f.Christian]

******* tiresome

---

...

******* netherlands

---

---

rebut this ... you'll have to ---

someday --- soon !

"It seemed that indeed the truth would be 'forever on the scaffold, and wrong forever on the throne'. With great eagerness he listened to the query, 'How long shall be the vision?'(Daniel 8:13)."


Daniel and the Coming King

Chapter 16

The Gospel In Daniel 9:24

By Dr.Desmond Ford

"It would be tragic if we contented ourselves with an analytical examination of this passage of Scripture. It is not merely a scintillating gem to be admired, but the bread of life to be eaten. It consists of 'the everlasting gospel' in minature."

"That which should concern us all the more than the issues of hermeneutics is the issue of life---our life. Not minutiae of prophetic interpretation, but sin, sorrow, and death constitute our problems. Daniel 9:24 assures us that the world is a ship and not an iceberg, that God is intensely interested in our dilemma, and, best of all, that He has done something to extricate us from the apparent cul-de-sac of existence. In Christ, the Melchizedekan King-Priest, He has brought in everlasting righteousness, freely offered to all who believe."

Chapter 14

Daniel and the Coming King---Daniel 9

By Dr.Desmond Ford

"Sir Isaac Newton, the greatest of scientists prior to the modern period, wrote a commentary upon the prohecies of Daniel and Revelations. He desribed Daniel 9:24-27 as "the foudation-stone of the Christian religion" because centuries in advance it gave the time of appearance of the Messiah and His death, as well as a comprehensive description of His saving work in heaven and earth. The prophecy likewise tells what would be the fate of the Jews consequent upon their rejection of the One whose coming they had long anticpated. The destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, foretold in Daniel 9:24-27, was history's testimony that the offerings and services of the sanctuary had met their fulfillment in the advent of the promised Messiah."

Newton, Isaac. Observsations Upon the Prophecies of Daniel and the Apocalpse of St. John. London: J. Darby and T. Browne, 1733 (Isaac Newton)

Chrystalk ...

"All of this while the book itself says it is sealed up, and never will be understood until the End of Days --- which we are living in ... "

Chapter 14

Daniel and the Coming King---Daniel 9

by Dr.Desmond Ford @ ... GNU (( link )).

Seal Up the Vision

"The expression 'to seal up the vision' (v.24) should be considered. This expression, 'the vision', occurs eleven times in Daniel 8:1 to 10:1, and in all these cases it refers to the vision described in the eighth chapter of Daniel. The reader is advised to read again the entire passage. In pictorial, symbolic form the prophet was shown the unfolding of all future centuries till the second advent of Christ. The famous empires, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome, which long oppressed the people of God, are described; but particular emphasis is given to the persecution of the church during the Christian era and also to the supremacy of the couterfeit, apostate religion over most of that period. Christ's mediatorial ministry in heaven is alluded to, but its eclipse from men's mind through a counterfeit system is fortold. The sanctuary mentioned refers both to the church temple indwelt by the Holy Spirit on earth, as well as Israel's typical sanctuary. No doubt Daniel was dazed by this revelation of the apparent triumph of evil. In his lifetime he had witnessed the destruction of Jerusalem's temple, the center of true religion, and the carrying into captivity of the people of God by an idolatrous and desolating nation. Now in vision he is informed that this state of affairs is to continue on a much greater scale throughout most of the earth's history. It seemed that indeed the truth would be 'forever on the scaffold, and wrong forever on the throne'. With great eagerness he listened to the query, 'How long shall be the vision?'(Daniel 8:13)."

"Now in the revelation of 9:24-27 the mourning seer is told that there is a greater Prince of the house of Judah, a greater atonement, a greater sanctuary, and a greater redemption than any ever before experienced by Israel. The long-awaited Messiah, the Prince, a Priest-King, will take away the sin of the world and end earth's dark night. Thus 9:24 and 8:14 point to the same reality---the kingdom of God ignaugurated at the first advent and consummated at the second."

[gore3000]

But it's all that needs to be said about your silly assertions.

Let's see, the above is supposed to be a refutation of my statement below??????

LOL is not a refutation of anything. As usual you pull out the conclusions from carefully reasoned and substantiated posts and disregard all the evidence given. You may hold your opinions very highly, but they are just your opinions and when all you can do is insult the statements of others instead of refuting what is being said you show quite well that it is your opinion which is wrong, not that of the one you are attacking.

You show again quite well that you are totally unable to discuss the facts and can only heckle from the sidelines.

You are of course, from now on, on virtual ignore.

Actually I have been on virtual ignore from you for a long time. Heckling does not constitute discussion. I hope you do indeed keep your promise to stop the heckling. Intelligent discussion though, if you are ever up to it, will always be welcome.

[f.Christian]

From the evo plates -- revelations -- scriptures (( sacred )) !

To: AmericanAge

a theory that says animals like wolves turned into whales

rwp ...

Straw man.

A primitive carnivore begat another, which begat another, and another, and over a few million begats, eventually the offspring was a whale. There are obvious differences between offspring and their parents in just a single generation. Impose changes of that order a few million times over, and you can't forsee a large increase in body mass, alteration of a few limbs, etc?

262 posted on 05/08/2003 12:48 PM PDT by Right Wing Professor

eventually ... the offspring (( presto // ergo )) --- was a whale.

[f.Christian]

This is one of my favorites !

PROOF

The assimilation of data in such a way that the desired conclusion seems to be the most plausible hypothesis.

[gore3000]

This identical and very long post

Starting another campaign against someone who disagrees with you. It seems that that is your modus operandi - try to get everyone banned who does not agree with your theory. Seems to me that you are the most consistent spammer of these threads, placing placemarkers, nonsense pictures, and discussing comics and other totally irrelevant matters to the subject at hand on these threads and encouraging others to do the same when the discussions are not going your way. At least f.christians posts do refer to the subject under discussion. It shows some very big problems with the theory of evolution - which no one on the thread has deigned to answer. Probably this is due to your insistence that certain people should be ignored such as your post#73. And of course you only want those who believe as you to be involved in the discussion as your post# 2 (similar to posts you make on numerous threads) abundantly shows. According to you only those who believe as you are worthy of discussing things. Is that what a discussion forum such as FreeRepublic is about?

[gore3000]

It's not a particulary good xposition of evolution.

Really? That selection cannot be the cause of variation is certainly true, yet Darwinian evolution certainly claims so. If you wish to call Darwin a sloppy writer, I would certainly agree with you. As to 'survival of the fittest' that also seems pretty central to the theory and do not know how you can take it away from the theory of evolution. However, if you wish to update the theory according to more modern knowledge and provide us with what is now THE theory of evolution, I would like to hear it. However, without your saying what it says instead of what it does not say, one can hardly determine what the theory is and if it is correct or not. So let's hear your version.

[usastandsunited]

I just watched a two hour special on evolution on the discovery channel hosted by Alec Baldwin. I was hoping for something a little ( or a lot) more scientific and less fairy tale than this. He continously used words like "chance", "miracle" , & "created". I'll just write this one off as a hollywood story the scientific community doesn't claim. If you have any books (or video programs), that you recommend, please let me know.

[Aric2000]

Indeed I have, but you will notice that he, for some reason is DESPERATE to get OUR attention.

TOO FUNNY!!

I guess that he has chosen not to seek help, sad, just sad...

[MattAMiller]

A far as I can tell they're trying to figure out when various species split off from each other. I don't see why this would require the assumption that one of them entered a state of genetic stasis.

Linguists trace relationships between languages. Yet no one assumes that German became stagnant after English split off from it.

[Aric2000]

That 2nd link is GREAT!!!

Thanks PH, bookmarked!!!

[longshadow]

spamming Thorazine bandit placemarker

[jennyp]

I just watched a two hour special on evolution on the discovery channel hosted by Alec Baldwin.

Walking with Cavemen. It's on the Discovery Channel, & it'll be repeated several times this week.

I was hoping a Homo heidelbergensis would bop Alec on the head, but sadly, no. He actually did a decent job of saying his lines, though.

The point of the documentary was to show what was most plausible about how these ancestor species lived, given all the subtle clues that we have today. It wasn't too bad, over all, IMO.

[PatrickHenry]

If you have any books (or video programs), that you recommend, please let me know.

Darwin's books (Origin of Species and Descent of Man) are both still in print, readily available, and quite readable. Always a good place to begin, although they're now 150 years old. For something more up-to-date, try What Evolution Is, by Ernst Mayr. Or hunt around on Amazon's website. You're find hundreds. If you're looking for books on creationism, I can't recommend anything.

[gore3000]

A far as I can tell they're trying to figure out when various species split off from each other. I don't see why this would require the assumption that one of them entered a state of genetic stasis.

Linguists trace relationships between languages. Yet no one assumes that German became stagnant after English split off from it.

But evolutionists are assuming that species did become stagnant after the split, that's the point I am trying to make. We have no evidence of what the DNA of any species was hundreds of millions of years ago and they are counting the differences between species at present.

[MattAMiller]

We have no evidence of what the DNA of any species was hundreds of millions of years ago and they are counting the differences between species at present.

You don't need the DNA from millions of years ago. If two species split off from one another then their ancestors will share a certain amount of similarities. The difference will be accounted for by changes in BOTH species over that time.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

"Irreducibly complex??" ;)

[<1/1,000,000th%]

Among the successes of Demeter and her predecessors is showing that life probably moved from water onto land only once in its 3.7 billion-year history, says the museum's Ward Wheeler.

I assume that they're referring only to large animals here, and not including plants and insects. This is shocking if true. But it should make it simpler to categorize the land fauna in the tree.

[js1138]

Linguists trace relationships between languages. Yet no one assumes that German became stagnant after English split off from it.

Ooooooh. Big can of worms. Broadening the concept of evolution to include language. There are two schools on FR. Those who want to stay focused on biological evolution, and those who like to ridicule the concept of evolution in all its manifestations.