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To: HELLRAISER II
Was I being a smart @ss? Of course I was, but you said & I quote "Only the ones that use it to alter their state of conciousness." Well if 1 beer takes the edge off of someones conciousness, isn't that altering as well. You can't have it both way's, if you use alcohol it will alter the way you feel. It may make you happy, it may make you sad, it may make you the meanest SOB in the valley. But it definately alters ones perception, good and bad. You say I want drugs legalized because I want to get high & be a scumbag. First off I haven't said even once if I get high, 2nd just because someone does get high doesn't mean that their scumbags and that their going to go out & kill you or destroy your stuff. Man you need to step back and look at the way your thinking.

You have simply repeated the same ridiculous comparison using beer now instead of wine. I won't bother repeating my answer to that since it's the same.

I did not say you wanted to be a scumbag. Who in their right minds "want" to be "scumbags"? I'll bet even people you would regard as such don't "want" to be "scumbags" and may not even regard themselves as such.

You may not have explicity said you get high, but again, let's clear away all of your arguments and get down to business, shall we? Let's quit dancing around it, and be honest; otherwise, it's a useless exchange. You want to get "high" without worrying about any legal "hassles". Am I right or wrong?

You are correct when you say just because people get high doesn't mean they are going to go out kill or destroy property. I did not say the latter is an automatic result of the former; however, drug use (including alcohol) DOES play a part in a large number of crimes. A police officer I know in California thinks the lenient "medical" marijuana laws are an absolute farce and that they should be completely done away with. He says when he's out on a call, it invariably comes down to DRUGS. Not simple possession, but what results from the abuse of the substances. Legalization of drugs certainly won't help this situation whatsoever, and will quite obviously only make matters worse. As big of a "failure" as the WOD has been, legalization of drugs would be an even bigger failure by the only accounting system that matters - the toll on human lives. Do I wish the WOD would be more effective in reducing illicit drug availability and use? Absolutely. The answer isn't to give up the war, but to fight a more effective one. What was the lesson from the Vietnam War? That we shouldn't fight wars because we were not victorious? Obviously not. The lesson leanred was to fight a clearly defined war to WIN, period. Instead of thinking of ways to give up and declare defeat in the WOD, we should be thinking of ways to win the war.

What crimes people commit to obtain drugs or while under their influence is certainly worth noting, but it is not the main issue as far as I am concerned. Again, while a free society should guarantee your right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" it also has a duty to protect citizens even from themselves if it comes to that. Unfortunately there are those that are so reckless with their rights to privacy that they cross a line where society has the right to intervene for their own good. I previously listed what some of those circumstances are, which includes drug abuse. Again, NO right is absolute. EVERY right has its limitations. Those who seek ANY right that carries with it NO limitations are interested in only self-indulgent, excessive behavior. RESPONSIBLITY is the counter-balance to rights. Someone who seeks rights without responsibility is on a dangerous, self-destructive path. A society that seeks the same is doomed.

133 posted on 05/08/2003 2:17:51 PM PDT by GLDNGUN
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To: GLDNGUN
Your argument would carry more weight if we were talking about crack, heroin, powder coke etcc.... I truly believe you are right when you say people that do these drugs fit completely into the category that you paint. But were not talking about these, we're talking about smoke and trust me the percentages of people that just smoke do not fit in that category. Most of them are normal hard working people that stay at home and do not hurt anyone, they don't steal, they don't mug, they don't rape. That was my point. One other thing, I do not condone legalization of all drugs. Just Smoke.
134 posted on 05/09/2003 5:37:30 AM PDT by HELLRAISER II
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