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Is Bush the Antichrist?
The Covenant News ^ | April 12, 2002 | Chuck Baldwin

Posted on 05/03/2003 9:47:29 AM PDT by MatthewViti

During the eight years of Clinton's presidency, I was repeatedly asked, "Chuck, do you think Bill Clinton is the antichrist?" (Of course, I answered no.) Therefore, it is more than interesting to me that since G.W. Bush became president no one has asked if I thought he was the antichrist. Not one single person! Instead, many people attribute to Bush god-like qualities, which actually makes him a better candidate than Clinton was.

You see, one of the chief characteristics of the coming antichrist is that he appears "as an angel of light." Therefore, an obvious reprobate such as Bill Clinton is immediately disqualified. The antichrist, by very definition, is a master deceiver. He must be someone who appears as good and benevolent. The bite is in his tail not in his tongue. In reality, Bush's angelic persona makes him much more dangerous than bad boy Billy.

For example, while Clinton was in the process of appointing numerous homosexual activists to his administration, copious letters from Christian leaders such as Jerry Falwell, James Dobson, and D. James Kennedy flooded America's Christian community. Appeals for protest and resistance were heard from pulpits throughout the country. A massive media campaign began against Clinton.

Today, however, President Bush is in the process of copying Clinton's numerous appointments of open homosexuals to high positions of government, but there are no letters, no warnings from pulpits, and no media campaigns opposing it. Just the opposite. Bush is being defended, lauded, and glorified for everything he does, no matter how unconstitutional or unscriptural it might be.

When Clinton only talked of legalizing embryonic stem cell research, he was castigated and condemned. Bush actually made the procedure legal, and yet, he was praised and honored. Clinton was denigrated when he tried to convince Israel to give up land for peace. Now, Bush is in the process of actually trying to create an independent Palestinian state for Israel's enemies (with Jerusalem as its capital, no less), yet continues to receive glowing adulation. If Clinton even suggested that America's immigration laws might need to be liberalized, he was denounced in the harshest terms; but Bush can actually grant limited amnesty to thousands of illegal aliens, and there is not the faintest whisper of protest.

Do you recall how Clinton was criticized for the "low lifes" he invited to the White House? Well, Bush recently invited wild man rocker, Ozzie Osbourne, to the White House. Have you heard any notable Christian leader take Bush to task for that?

You remember Ozzie Osbourne, don't you? He is the former front man for the heavy metal band, Black Sabbath. He is famous for stage antics such as biting the heads off birds and bats. His abuse of drugs and alcohol are also well known. Furthermore, Ozzie Osbourne desecrated The Alamo by pissing all over it. In spite of this, George W. Bush is said to be one of Osbourne's biggest fans. As such, Osbourne was recently invited to the White House for dinner. Have you heard any criticism of Bush for this?

Obviously, I do not believe President Bush is the antichrist any more than I believed Bill Clinton was. However, I do believe that Bush possesses more deceptive qualities than Clinton did and, therefore, is more dangerous. I also now understand more clearly how even "the elect" can be deceived. Bush' s acceptance by the overwhelming majority of Christian people proves the country is ready for the antichrist, whoever he is.


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: chuckbaldwin; cuespookymusic
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To: Trace21230
Fundamentalist nutcase *PING*<p. I'm a fundamentalist and I agree with the above statement.
281 posted on 05/03/2003 1:06:49 PM PDT by razorbak
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To: cynicom
"Are you some kind of clinton fan, per chance?"
That is not equating you with Clinton, but asking if you are a fanboy of his.
You know what a fanboy is, right?
They're asking if you are one of those delusional types that believe that Clinton was the greatest thing since the invention of artificial sex and aspartame.
A better question prolly would be:
"Bill Clinton, vile narcissist or world's greatest President?"
282 posted on 05/03/2003 1:07:20 PM PDT by Darksheare (Nox aeternus en pax.)
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To: All
Bastard writer alert.
283 posted on 05/03/2003 1:08:41 PM PDT by rwfromkansas (Blessed be the Lord, the God of Israel!)
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To: Trace21230
Excuse me, but I am a conservative Christian and consider Baldwin off his rocker.

Check out my tagline for crying out loud (though some person wrote me about it and thought it had a reference to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, but it does not). It is a quote from Psalm 72, well from a Metrical Psalm of that. Apparently, some people don't understand that I can say "Israel" without it having any meaning for the current conflict. As a Christian, both the OT and NT matter...but then again, few Christians actually obey the mandate of Col. 3:16 to sing PSALMS, hymns, and spiritual songs. They usually choose to just pick the last two and ignore God's holy Songbook provided in his Word.

Anyway, after that rant with no real connection to the matter at hand, I will be quiet.
284 posted on 05/03/2003 1:16:11 PM PDT by rwfromkansas (Blessed be the Lord, the God of Israel!)
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To: Trace21230; MississippiMan
Exactly. I find it interesting that FReepers like MM attack the response to the title rather than the ridiculous title itself.

Says a lot about the poster

The malcontents always play the same game. They throw out mud on FR and when people call them on their throwing mud, they automatically turn themselves into a victim class that would make Al Sharpton blush, IMO.

285 posted on 05/03/2003 1:16:32 PM PDT by Dane
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To: MatthewViti
No. The anti-Christ will be loved all over the world. Right there that knocks Bush out of the running.
286 posted on 05/03/2003 1:31:58 PM PDT by jwh_Denver (The only good liberal is a gagged one.)
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To: MatthewViti
I thought that was billy boy
287 posted on 05/03/2003 1:34:27 PM PDT by The Wizard (Saddamocrats are enemies of America, treasonous everytime they speak)
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To: dpa5923
Well, I could say a few things about Saul, as in Acts Chapter 8, especially verse 3. BTW, you are just stating original sin. This is not news.
288 posted on 05/03/2003 1:34:48 PM PDT by widowithfoursons
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To: MatthewViti
may I suggest therapy
289 posted on 05/03/2003 1:36:12 PM PDT by The Wizard (Saddamocrats are enemies of America, treasonous everytime they speak)
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To: PaxMacian
I have been taught to believe that he is a person or is going to be a person. No, I do not think that Bush is the antichrist. It's a shame that so many people blew up thinking that was my intention. The absurbitity is that people actually believed that and were so quick to strike down the credibility of the article. I merely posted it to start a civil discussion on the matter.
290 posted on 05/03/2003 1:47:04 PM PDT by MatthewViti
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To: MississippiMan
If you have a problem with what the guy said, why don't you dispute his alleged facts?

Where have you been for the last 238 posts?

291 posted on 05/03/2003 1:54:29 PM PDT by Dave S
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To: Matchett-PI
The two great prophetic treatises by Christ in Matthew 24 and by the Apostle John in Revelation have not been fulfilled. If they had been fulfilled, all believers would now be in heaven, the Devil would be now chained in Hell, and the literal, visible Second Coming of Christ would already have occurred. His 2nd Coming concludes each of these treatises, as was intended in Matthew 24:3, not to mention the natural cataclysms that mark the end of human history and the physical world as we now know it. The "all-already-fulfilled" school is a house of cards. You have to believe that the wars of 1st century Israel were the worst ever in human history, worse than World Wars I and II, to believe the all-already-fulfilled view of biblical prophecy.

For anyone with the endurance to read post #225, lay aside its sophistry and verbal gymnastics and simply read Matthew 24, and 2 Thessalonians 2, and the book of Revelation and decide for yourself. When Jesus said in Matthew 24:34 "this generation will by no means pass away until all these things take place," the already fulfilled proponents say that Jesus was telling them he would return in the first century. Forgetting the fact that this interpretation would make Jesus a liar, since He did not return in glory in the first century, they totally miss the meaning of v.34 by ripping it away from v.33. V.33 says "when you see all these things, know [imperative:"I command you to know"] that it [the Second Coming, v.30] is near, even at the doors." Keeping v.33 and 34 together, Jesus was saying that the generation that sees "these things" [the signs mentioned througout the previous verses of Matthew chapter 24] will not pass away until all events [including the 2nd Coming of v.30] is fulfilled.

The Apostle John and the Apostle Peter knew that Christ would not come before Peter's death:

John 21: 17 ...Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep. 18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not. 19 This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God...

A. J. Gordon, reporting on the views of a converted Jew named Joseph Rabinowitz wrote over 100 years ago the following:

"Without a clear proclamation of the second advent, Christians have no common ground on which to meet the Jew; that to spiritualize this doctrine, as many do, is fatal, since the predictions are so clear of a glorious and conquering Messiah as well as a suffering Messiah. If you spiritualize the second advent, you must allow the Jew to spiritualize the first, as he is always ready to do, and you have no basis on which to reason with him."

Papias lived from approximately 60 to 130 A.D. It is believed that he was taught directly by the Apostle John. He was a friend of Polycarp, another prominent Church leader who was a disciple of John. Papias served as Bishop of Hierapolis in Phrygia, Asia Minor. His writings have not been preserved to the present day; however, Irenaeus and Eusebius, two other Church leaders, referred to his writings (Elgin Moyer and Earle E. Cairns, Wycliffe Biographical Dictionary of the Church, Chicago: Moody Press, 1982, pp. 314-315).

Irenaeus, after relating Christ’s teaching concerning the dramatic changes which the earth will experience in the future Millennium, wrote, "And these things are borne witness to in the writings by Papias, the hearer of John, and a companion of Polycarp, in his fourth book" (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book V, chpt. 33, section 4 in The Ante-Nicene Fathers, edited by Rev. Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, Buffalo: The Christian Literature Publishing Company, 1885, I, p. 563).

Eusebius, Bishop of Caesarea and "The Father of Church History" (Moyer and Cairns, Biographical Dictionary, p. 135), wrote the following concerning Papias in his work Ecclesiastical History (III, 39), "Among other things he says that a thousand years will elapse after the resurrection of the dead and there will be a corporal establishment of Christ’s Kingdom on this earth" (The Apostolic Fathers in The Fathers Of The Church, edited by Ludwig Schopp, et. al., translated by Francis X. Glimm, Joseph M. F. Marique, and Gerald G. Walsh, Washington, D.C.: The Catholic University of America Press, 1962, I, p. 378).

Justin Martyr lived from approximately 100 to 165 A.D. He was well-educated. He held no regular church office but served as a traveling evangelist and defender of Christianity. In his writings he argued for the superiority of Christianity to paganism and Judaism. On his second journey to Rome he was arrested, lashed, and beheaded because of his testimony for Christ (Moyer and Cairns, Biographical Dictionary, pp. 220-221).

In his writing entitled Dialogue With Trypho Justin stated, "But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, [as] the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare" (Justin Martyr, Dialogue With Trypho, chpt. 80, in The Ante-Nicene Christian Library, edited by Rev. Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, Edinburgh: T. & T. Clark, 1867, II, p. 200). His use of the expression right-minded Christians on all points was his way of asserting that Premillennialism was the orthodox view of his day.

I need to conclude lest I be as tedious as the post I am contending against. The already-fulfilled theologians believe the chaining or confining of the Devil in Hell, taught in Rev. ch.20, if they believe it at all, has already occurred. The President of my seminary sat under such a teacher. Noting that Rev.20 also says that the Devil will be loosed for short season after his thousand years [millenium] of confinement commented thusly, "If the Devil is chained now, what's it going to be like when he is loosed."

292 posted on 05/03/2003 2:02:31 PM PDT by razorbak
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To: PaxMacian
So, technically Bush is just one head of the beast which will soon attempt to secure its grip upon your eternal soul with the mark of biometric identification linked to a completely controlled and monitored monetary system.

Get thee back to thy Bible. Ye are in need of salvation. ROTFWL.

293 posted on 05/03/2003 2:03:57 PM PDT by Dave S
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To: cynicom
Matt... Nothing was false. That is what irritates some people here, that shrug it off without doing some real thinking.

Aside from the fact that there are falsehoods in the article, this guy earned his kook merit badge a while back. That will tend to make people dismiss you rather quickly in any case.

294 posted on 05/03/2003 2:09:23 PM PDT by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet ("Broken promises don't upset me. I just think, why did they believe me?" - J. Handey)
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To: LurkerNoMore!
That was the first thing I thought of, too. To the Kook Bin with both of them.
295 posted on 05/03/2003 2:12:07 PM PDT by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet ("Broken promises don't upset me. I just think, why did they believe me?" - J. Handey)
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To: Dave S
Where have you been for the last 238 posts?

My original post was in response to post number TWO in the thread.

MM

296 posted on 05/03/2003 2:12:40 PM PDT by MississippiMan
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To: DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet
I tend to worry more about whether God thinks of me as a kook rather than any man, for God has the final say.
297 posted on 05/03/2003 2:15:04 PM PDT by MatthewViti
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To: Dave S
Revelation 13:1
And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having
seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the
name of blasphemy.
298 posted on 05/03/2003 2:18:02 PM PDT by PaxMacian
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To: MatthewViti
I tend to worry more about whether God thinks of me as a kook rather than any man, for God has the final say.

I imagine President Bush feels the same way about being called "evil".

(And just to be clear, it was Chuck Baldwin I was referring to as a kook in my post.)

299 posted on 05/03/2003 2:20:56 PM PDT by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet ("Broken promises don't upset me. I just think, why did they believe me?" - J. Handey)
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To: DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet
Men are not evil. Acts may be evil, men may be redeemed.
300 posted on 05/03/2003 2:24:17 PM PDT by PaxMacian
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