Pope Calls for Fast Against War in Iraq (Catholics to fast on Ash Wednesday)

VATICAN CITY - Pope John Paul (news - web sites) II called on Catholics to fast on Ash Wednesday in the name of peace and said again on Sunday he worried a U.S.-led war against Iraq could unsettle the entire Middle East.

Looking wan and tired, John Paul opened his traditional Sunday remarks from his studio window overlooking St. Peter's Square by denouncing war as a way to resolve the conflict.

"We Christians in particular are called upon to be sentinels of peace," John Paul said, calling on Catholics to dedicate their fasting on Ash Wednesday, March 5, for the cause of peace.

On that day, the pope said, faithful will pray for "the conversion of hearts and the long-range vision of just decisions to resolve disputes with adequate and peaceful means."

He said that the fast, which Catholics traditionally conduct at the start of Lent to prepare themselves for Easter, is an "expression of penitence for the hate and violence which pollute human relations."

Fasting, an ancient practice shared by other religions, he said, also lets faithful "shed themselves of all arrogance."

Rainbow-hued peace banners fluttered in the crowd of tourists and pilgrims in the square. Surveys have shown Italians and many other Europeans oppose war, even if waged under the aegis of the United Nations (news - web sites), and earlier this month, about 1 million Italians marched through Rome to protest against the United States and its push for using military force.

While the pope has been hailed as a champion of peace by anti-war demonstrators ranging from environmentalists to communists, some in Italy challenged his view.

Radical Party leaders Sunday denounced what they saw as the pontiff's "equating terrorism and war, whatever war." Led by Marco Panella, the Radicals say they would like to see Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) in exile and a democratic government under U.N. auspices to replace the Iraqi leader.

John Paul has been holding practically daily meetings with key players in the crisis over Iraq. In his latest effort, on Saturday, he met with British Prime Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites), who has been trying to line up support in Europe and elsewhere for Washington's insistence that military force is necessary if Baghdad doesn't quickly and completely comply with U.N. disarmament resolutions.

John Paul, 82 and struggling with Parkinson's disease (news - web sites) and other health problems, appeared weary, his voice trailing off in the final words of his appeal, "blessed are the peacemakers," a phrase from the Gospel of Matthew.

John Paul made similar calls against conflict in the months before the 1991 Gulf War (news - web sites), but in this campaign, with the memory of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks making the world particularly apprehensive, he has seemed more determined than ever to do his part to persuade decision-makers against going to war.

Iraq hasn't inflicted any damage on the USA. We are attacking him because of what he might do at some point in the future. This excuse doesn't cut it. If this new idea of "pre-emptive war" becomes the norm in international relations, then we are in for a very stormy future...since there are a heck of a lot of nations that have a heck of a lot of paranoid ideas involving the intentions of their neighbors.

What about the 1.5 million Muslims he has killed and the suffering and torture he has subjected his own people to. You also might want to talk to the aircrews of the aircraft flying over Iraq that are shot at every single day. He hasn't abided by the agreement he made in 1991. Your argument is baseless. By the way, how many intelligence briefings have you sat in on in the last 12 years?

First of all, there is no "it" to put an end to, as Iraq has not attacked us. Second, our govt has been phoney about this from the get-go, as they never intended to allow any other solution but invasion and occupation (the US has been actively discouraging efforts by Russia to overthrow Saddam in a coup, as this would eliminate the justification for invasion and occupation). The behavior of our government has been the exact opposite of just war criteria

You sound like those clueless dolts in the episcopacy. Read the agreement that Hussein signed in 1991 and the 17 resolutions the UN has passed since then. Saint Augustine would characterize you as a fool and rightly so.

War is a clash of wills where the 2, or more parties attempt to dominate the other. In this case the will of sodom is nothing but evil, driven by evil intent. The will of the opposition is that he cease and desist, nothing more, nothing less. Unless one takes the side of those who would bow to the will of sodom and his sodomite forces, the finger points to the sodomites as the ones responsible for the clash.

The fact of the matter is that this evil tyrant has killed at least hundreds of thousands of his own people, because they resist following his will. He has instigated and attacked 3 countries in the gulf w/o anymore provocation than they simply exist, or their leaders have refused his demands. The leaders over their that want peace, also want that peace to be a condition of Freedom to follow their traditional culture. There merchants do business with ours. They have asked for our help in ridding the evil from theirs midst. Sodom is also allied with the jihadi terrorist crowd that has as it's goal the submission of all to it's ideology. Their means to achieve that goal are terrorizing and lies. Sodom enables their means and promotes their lies.

It would seem that your justice is a peace at all costs, which is really a surrender to those that would establish evil on this Earth as a permanent feature of this world. Are we to Refuse them that asked to be freed from this wickedness and cower in the face of evil, or is it our duty to rectify the situation and banish the evildoers?

"The Muslim world overwhelmingly opposes a US invasion.

You've deliberately jumped to the "Muslim World". That was to avoid address the situation of the muslims that are under sodom's dominion. GHW Bush and the 'toon both abandoned their plight. Promises were made of help and retracted. That retraction resulted in the death of many.

"If they are so lathered about his butchering arabs and muslims, then it is their job to throw him out.

They are weak and sodom is strong. Do you also wish to hide the fact that he gased and bombed thousands that had zero in the way of military capacity?

" But they aren't lathered about it, and they actively oppose us eliminating him.

You mean all those folks that ally with sodom, because they delight in the evil that flows from his mouth and his sodomite forces? Those you speak of would have you dead and anyone else also, if you didn't submit to their will. If they had the power. That is one significant reason sodom needs to be defanged. He is their leader and enabler, a leader that leads them into the very pits of hell and the worship of the beast that dwells there and delights at the sight of sodoms works.

"Our aircraft shouldn't be over there.

Rubbish! It's the least we could do after we betrayed them. " The best way to avoid their being shot at is not to attack Iraq, but rather to utilize our military only for protecting America"

Abandon those that need help. Right on, O man of peace. Your peace is the peace of abandonment, submission and death of the spirit that exists under the likes of sodom and his minions. " (doesn't it seem strange to you that our military is "absolutely needed" to fly around over Iraq, while our own borders are totally undefended?)

So instead of facing an evil beast, you would have the military go after the poor and hungry searching for a better life?

" Nations lie all of the time. The Gulf of Tonkin and the Kuwaiti incubator babies come to mind."

Have you not heard that all have sinned. Is it not our duty to repent and rectify what has been done?

" Does "lying" appear somewhere in the just war doctrine? If so, our Imperial Masters in DC had better slip out of town now.

Imperial masters my foot. There's no imperial goals involved here. You don't have a clue what justice is or what just war is. You're just trying to peddle misery to the world.

"My justice, as far as war is concerned, is the simple principle that we shouldn't go to war with another country unless they have attacked us."

Here is an example of just war. I once happened on some folks at a bus stop at o'dark hundred one night. The was an old lady sitting on a park bench, a girl ~18y/o and a car full of gang members showboating their blades. The girl was white as as your finest bond paper, so was the old lady. They were both as terrorized as they could be. See the meatloafs in the car were going to pull her in and have her for lunch.

I was going to have none of it. It took up a position that would enable me to kill 2 right off as I yelled for her to run. The position allowed me to keep the other 4 occupied so she could get away. It would have been certain death for me if they lauched the attack, but I didn't care, because I was right. Regardless of the lack of any authorization from anyone. I was prepared to attempt to kill the other 4 also.

This example is a perfect illustration of a just war. It also exemplifies what the war with sodom is about. There's no imperialistic goals, or desire for the goods of Iraq. It's to rid the world of a murderous maniac and his cohorts. Just war. There you have it in a nutshell!

"We are under no obligation to accept the Pope's views on international relations."

I know that, but what did the Pope say and what does it mean? My obligations are to follow God's teachings, seek out the truth and to honor Him. Since truth is unique, it can not have multiple meanings and interpretations. Fasting and prayer is an activity with the Holy Spirit, where the truth is uncovered from all the illusions. All the petitionary prayers were answered long ago and have and are now brought to be, by those who search for the truth.

Ash Wednesday and Lent are times where folks commemorate Christ's 40 day search with the Holy Spirit from His Father, from which all truth comes, by fasting and prayer. As a man He had to do these things to learn, else He would not be true to Himself and would never learn. The same must be done by all men if they are to learn the truth. They can not learn it simply by the teachings of another man. All must partake in the prayers. That is the meaning of, "seek and ye shall find".

The idea that the Pope is Christ's rep here on Earth would seem to contradict the fact that we are all God's reps and have been commanded to go out into the world, testify of Him, and give glory to Him. The rock is the solid faith exemplified by Peter. So the Pope is a rep of Christ on Earth, as all of the faith are.

I don't see that the Pope has been specific here regarding anything, except what I have outlined. His words as reported, seem to be no more than cautionary words to the world. It is other men that are claiming certain things, that hint at the Pope commanding something. Things such as: "Pope Calls for Fast Against War in Iraq", "John Paul opened his traditional Sunday remarks from his studio window overlooking St. Peter's Square by denouncing war as a way to resolve the conflict.", " he has seemed more determined than ever to do his part to persuade decision-makers against going to war." These are commentary attributed to the Pope, or paraphrasing the Pope by other men, in particular AP.

Here's what the Pope said:

""We Christians in particular are called upon to be sentinels of peace,"

That's true. To be short...the 1st Marine div has been a tremendous sentinel of peace. A peace that didn't result in folks living under the sovereignty of a tyrant and his evil world order. A sentinel of peace doesn't surrender all that is good to the forces of evil. He protects it against the dominion of evil. The AP said, "calling on Catholics to dedicate their fasting on Ash Wednesday, March 5, for the cause of peace." It's given w/o comment and implies, "at all costs and in particular that Iraq should not be opposed with force."

The Pope said to pray for, "the conversion of hearts and the long-range vision of just decisions to resolve disputes with adequate and peaceful means." There's nothing in this that says the Pope is against ousting sodom.

He also said, " "expression of penitence for the hate and violence which pollute human relations." Penitence is sorrow and regret. Christians are certainly sorrowful and regret all the evil that is perpetrated. It does not mean the US is about to pollute the world with violence and hate. The US is on a quest to rid the world of a major player perpetrating it. I am sure Christians are sorrowful and regret having to do it, but of our own hands are we to live in this world, as per Genesis.

Fasting, an ancient practice shared by other religions, he said, also lets faithful "shed themselves of all arrogance." True, what glory is given to God by the arrogent.

Some AP propaganda dropped in, "Surveys have shown Italians and many other Europeans oppose war, even if waged under the aegis of the United Nations (news - web sites), and earlier this month, about 1 million Italians marched through Rome to protest against the United States and its push for using military force." Nothing to do with anything the Pope said, or connected to Christianity at all.

"For months the international community is living in great apprehension for the danger of a war, which could unsettle the entire Middle East region and aggravate the tensions unfortunately already present in this beginning of the third millennium," the pontiff said. This is true. The AP used this cut for there propaganda purposes against the war. The statemnt though indicates nothing of the sort.

"It is the duty of all believers, to whichever religion they belong, to proclaim that we can never be happy pitted one against the other; the future of humanity will never able to be secured by terrorism and by the logic of war," John Paul said. This is true. The AP used it to promote submission, and not the rejection of evil. Beside the obvious is the fact that most folks don't know what war, or the logic of war is. War is a clash of wills for dominance. It can be composed of good vs evil, or evil vs evil, but never good vs good.

Here's the beginning of the rest of the AP's propaganda:

"While the pope has been hailed as a champion of peace by anti-war demonstrators ranging from environmentalists to communists, some in Italy challenged his view.

Associating the Pope with the reds and greens, leftist authoritarians that would devour your soul at your submission. Then they include the radicals, a real party in existance over there. The radicals it seems were unable to grasp what the Pope really said, and by their own fear and ignorance, failed to grasp the truth.

Nowhere in the article can I find anything the Pope said that is any different than what I posted here, or above.

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