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To: Dan Day
What we do have are live specimens with and without a placenta.-me-

And some with *partially developed* placentas. Is there some reason you "forgot" to consider the significance of that?

The problem is that since both examples are alive NOW it is only an evolutionist assumption that leads to the conclusion that those without a placenta came before those with one. -me-

You totally misunderstand the point of the study, but oh well.

The point of the study is that they have absolutely no examples of old DNA, they have no fossils showing when this happened so they are trying to create evidence where there is none by pure rhetoric. What they are saying is that by looking at the differences between the different DNA's, if one assumes that:
1. evolution is true.
2. the egg layers came first,
3. that mutations occur on a clockwork basis (regardless of the number of individuals in a species, the time it takes to reproduce, environmental conditions, or anything else).
4. that such a time frame has ever been scientifically determined or is even determinable.
5. that all mutations are the same and in no way affect anything worthwhile (except when the evolutionists need it to affect something worthwhile).

Only if all the assumptions above are true, can the study be correct. Of course, since the first one is that evolution is true, the evolutionists are trying to prove that evolution is true by assuming that it is true which of course is a logical fallacy.

So therefore it follows that the study above is a total abomination written no doubt because the authors were complete failures and needed to write something to justify their paychecks. It certainly is not science.

602 posted on 01/19/2003 6:31:45 PM PST by gore3000
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To: gore3000
"You totally misunderstand the point of the study, but oh well."

The point of the study is that they have absolutely no examples of old DNA, they have no fossils showing when this happened so they are trying to create evidence where there is none by pure rhetoric.

Nice try, but minute analysis of DNA and cross-species anatomical comparisons yield a great deal of evidence. They're hardly "creating" it.

What they are saying is that by looking at the differences between the different DNA's,

Oh, look, evidence after all!

if one assumes that: 1. evolution is true.

No need to assume that for the study they were doing.

2. the egg layers came first,

They didn't assume that, it's demonstratable from their data.

3. that mutations occur on a clockwork basis (regardless of the number of individuals in a species, the time it takes to reproduce, environmental conditions, or anything else).

You show a gross misunderstanding of how mutation differentials are used to derive timescales.

4. that such a time frame has ever been scientifically determined or is even determinable.

Sure it is. Long-term average mutation rates are easily calibrated by fossil dating.

5. that all mutations are the same and in no way affect anything worthwhile (except when the evolutionists need it to affect something worthwhile).

Now you're just babbling, and not talking about anything that actually relates to the study.

Only if all the assumptions above are true, can the study be correct.

Nice try, but no.

Of course, since the first one is that evolution is true, the evolutionists are trying to prove that evolution is true by assuming that it is true which of course is a logical fallacy.

It would be if that's what they were doing, but since that's your *own* mistake and not theirs...

So therefore it follows that the study above is a total abomination written no doubt because the authors were complete failures and needed to write something to justify their paychecks.

Or, you've just failed to understand it. But hey, that could *never* happen, right?

613 posted on 01/19/2003 8:01:38 PM PST by Dan Day
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