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To: Hemingway's Ghost
Whose rights are being trumped? Since when does anyone (well not you, you're British) have a Constitutional right to not feel uncomfortable?

You're missing the point. Parents pay for that school, their kids participate in it, surely they should have a say in how it is run, and what policies it adopts.

If it were a private school and parents there were paying for it in a more direct fashion, you would be in no position to argue this point.

Your claims are just wrong. The girl certainly was being prevented from attending classes, was being prevented from "getting an education" in so much as those who developed the curriculum consider physical education part of "getting an education," and she was being prevented from participating in a school activity---gym class. You completely whiffed.

Then arrangements should be made so she can get changed for class. This does not trump the parents and their kids right to have a say in how their school is run and what policies their school adopts.

Foist a policy upon people whose legislators made such a policy a state law? A law based on the notion that all people deserve to be treated equal? Oh, how horrible . . .

Again you're missing the point. If I start up a men's only club, where men can talk about sports and fishing all day and exclude women, I am breaking your precious "treat equally" clause. But as it's my premises, I am not actually going out and harming anyone, you can clear off.

Similarly, if one student is causing discomfort, it is not unreasonable to ask that student to change elsewhere.

Now it could be she isn't causing discomfort - note, I suggested that they ASK the girls in question how they felt about it. If there are barriers to the girl actually participating in class, that's another matter entirely - because the mother of the lesbian teen paid for that service to be delivered, and thus the school has a responsibility for it to be delivered.

My notion of the statist heart beating in a libertarian chest is very simple: while the libertarians on this board may not agree on everything, at the same time, they have very precise ideas on what the rest of us should be forced to tolerate.

Ivan

152 posted on 12/18/2002 11:50:49 AM PST by MadIvan
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To: MadIvan
You're missing the point. Parents pay for that school, their kids participate in it, surely they should have a say in how it is run, and what policies it adopts. If it were a private school and parents there were paying for it in a more direct fashion, you would be in no position to argue this point.

I'm afraid you're missing the point---this happened at a public school, not a private school.

Then arrangements should be made so she can get changed for class. This does not trump the parents and their kids right to have a say in how their school is run and what policies their school adopts.

That's not the issue here: the issue is that a girl was denied the ability to attend a class based on what she might do, or what others might think. It never got to the point of an actual solution to the "problem" because the solution to the problem was throwing the girl out of class.

Again you're missing the point. If I start up a men's only club, where men can talk about sports and fishing all day and exclude women, I am breaking your precious "treat equally" clause. But as it's my premises, I am not actually going out and harming anyone, you can clear off.

Public vs. private, Ivan.

Now it could be she isn't causing discomfort - note, I suggested that they ASK the girls in question how they felt about it. If there are barriers to the girl actually participating in class, that's another matter entirely - because the mother of the lesbian teen paid for that service to be delivered, and thus the school has a responsibility for it to be delivered.

What do you mean "if there are barriers to the girl actually participating in class, that's another matter entirely"? That's exactly what happened. The barrier to the girl actually participating in the class was her being sent to the principal's office instead of being allowed to attend gym class. Did you not read the story?

My notion of the statist heart beating in a libertarian chest is very simple: while the libertarians on this board may not agree on everything, at the same time, they have very precise ideas on what the rest of us should be forced to tolerate.

That's because "the rest of you" often equate what you're forced to tolerate as actionable offenses. Nobody's asking the rest of you to tolerate lesbianism. What they're asking you to do is to allow a girl who self-identifies as a lesbian to attend gym class like any other girl could. Her mere presence among "you all" doesn't incite or propogate lesbianism, does it?

156 posted on 12/18/2002 12:18:11 PM PST by Hemingway's Ghost
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