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To: BMCDA
Previously, I said: But the Bible is the Word of God. As such, there is no question that one is reading the truth when one reads the Bible.

To which you replied: Can you say circular?

The charge of circular logic is false.

Yes, the Bible does make the claim for itself that it is the Word of God. If that was the sole piece of evidence upon which Christians based their belief in the Bible as the Word of God, then the charge would carry some weight.

However, the Bible is inextricably linked to historical events and space and time - things outside of itself which powerfully and undeniably substantiate its message.

Archaeological discoveries have confirmed statements in the Bible again and again. The walls of Jericho, ancient civilizations, pottery from King David's time, etc.

Fulfilled prophecy radically confirms the message as divine in origin, for only God knows the future. Isaiah wrote of the birth of Christ to a virgin 700 years before the fact, and Micah wrote of the birthplace - Bethlehem - 500 years prior. David wrote of Christ's crucifixion 1000 years before it occurred, well before it was ever thought of, much less known and practiced.

The unique authorship of the scriptures - that the Bible was written by over 40 men from all walks of life, over a period of 1600 years, in 3 languages, on 3 continents, makes collaboration virtually impossible...and yet the Bible message and theme is consistent throughout, telling one story - God's Redemption At Christ's Expense (GRACE).

The power of its message. There is no other book which can change murderers into Sunday School teachers as the Bible has. Millions upon millions of people can testify to the transforming effect of the Bible's message, changing their lives from ones in which the practice of sinful habits and lifestyles reigned, to ones in which the peace of God and holiness reign.

Now, if you really want to talk about truly circular logic, then you should consider the geologists and the paleontologists. The geologist says the rock is 70 million years old because there is a dinosaur fossil in it which is known to be 70 million years old. The paleontologist says the same dinosaur fossil is 70 million years old because it was found in a rock known to be be 70 million years old. This goes on all the time.

4,317 posted on 01/10/2003 6:23:20 AM PST by music_code
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To: music_code
Now, if you really want to talk about truly circular logic, then you should consider the geologists and the paleontologists. The geologist says the rock is 70 million years old because there is a dinosaur fossil in it which is known to be 70 million years old. The paleontologist says the same dinosaur fossil is 70 million years old because it was found in a rock known to be be 70 million years old. This goes on all the time.

I'm terribly sorry, but this is an old creationist canard that has no basis in reality. Rocks are dated by several methods involving isotopes (and not by the fossils found therein). More than one method of dating is typically used and multiple dating tests are conducted to narrow the margin of error. The whole thing is not arbitrary at all, regardless of what the rumors may be.

I hope this has been a little help in clearing up any possible misunderstandings.

4,319 posted on 01/10/2003 6:51:28 AM PST by Junior (Mary had a little lamb, surprising the hell out the attending physicians.)
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To: music_code
However, the Bible is inextricably linked to historical events and space and time - things outside of itself which powerfully and undeniably substantiate its message.

That DOES seem to place a premium in making sure that research and scholarship don't contradict any details in the Bible. Good luck.

4,330 posted on 01/10/2003 7:34:38 AM PST by js1138 (What does LBB stand for?)
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To: music_code
Archaeological discoveries have confirmed statements in the Bible again and again. The walls of Jericho, ancient civilizations, pottery from King David's time, etc.

Really? There seem to be many archaeologists who don't share these views. Also proving parts of the Bible doesn't prove the whole Bible just as some events and places described in the Iliad that really do exist, don't make it true either.

For the rest, this pretty much comes up again and again. I've seen similar claims made on an other forum where I sometimes dwell. Here is a reply to such a claim. If you look around you will find even more responses since every newbie seems to think these arguments are somehow new and completely irrefutable. This however is not the case.

Now, if you really want to talk about truly circular logic, then you should consider the geologists and the paleontologists. The geologist says the rock is 70 million years old because there is a dinosaur fossil in it which is known to be 70 million years old. The paleontologist says the same dinosaur fossil is 70 million years old because it was found in a rock known to be be 70 million years old. This goes on all the time.

On the same board, only in the evolution section, radchemist promised a 2,000$ reward to that person who can demonstrate the claim you mentioned above. If you think you can provide such an example I suggest you post it there and take the 2,000$. However, no creationist there could give an example and this offer has been up for quite some time. And here is the link.

Regards

4,489 posted on 01/10/2003 4:04:37 PM PST by BMCDA (Why assume so glibly that the God who presumably created the universe is still running it?)
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