[exmarine]

I think that the Commandments (and the Constitution) were created out of the logic of the human mind. They are moral, and morality can be rightly based on them (minus the ones about idols, name in vain, worship only me, etc, my Biblical knowledge has dropped substantially, sorry).

If basic moral principles are man-based, then they are relative and carry no moral weight whatsoever! By your reasoning, I can use logic to make up MY OWN moral precepts and mine would be just as valid as those made up by any other man or group of men. The only way moral principles can carry any weight is if they are "self evident" (e.g. all men are created equal) and they can't e self-evident unless the source is God Himself. There is no source outside of God that can produce universal truths such as these.

[Condorman]

The only way moral principles can carry any weight is if they are "self evident" (e.g. all men are created equal) and they can't e self-evident unless the source is God Himself.

Euthyphro Dilemma

[B. Rabbit]

If basic moral principles are man-based, then they are relative and carry no moral weight whatsoever! By your reasoning, I can use logic to make up MY OWN moral precepts and mine would be just as valid as those made up by any other man or group of men. The only way moral principles can carry any weight is if they are "self evident" (e.g. all men are created equal) and they can't e self-evident unless the source is God Himself. There is no source outside of God that can produce universal truths such as these.

You are doing it again. You are jumping to the conclusion that I am a moral relativist and only through religion can we not be moral relativists. I simply disagree. Morality is absolute. Rights are absolute. As sure as the sun will rise tomorrow, man has the right to be free. The immoral man takes this right away from others. No need for a God (although I have admitted that in my limited knowledge, taught to me by your circle and the dot analogy, that there possibly could be a God). It is just not necessary to banish moral relativism from an individual.