Evolution Disclaimer Supported

The Advocate (Baton Rouge) ^ | 12/11/02 | WILL SENTELL

[Doctor Stochastic]

If I am naive, then I am in good company with Rocha, Pattee, von Neumann, Chaitin and others.

Rocha has told me he disagrees.

[f.Christian]

Basically these zoo heads are judging facts and God by human // ape standards and it is getting worse!

[Doctor Stochastic]

So, do you prefer human unreasoning?

[viaveritasvita]

Most Christian young-earth creationists would agree that it is presumptuous and dangerous for any self-apointed modern critic to reject the plain truth of Scripture in favor of some ad hoc reinterpretation based on current scientific theory. In II Peter 3:3-6, Peter warns against the uniformitarian approach to the study of earch history. Scoffers, Peter predicted, would insist that "all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation" (thus presuming that naturalism and uniformitarianism govern all scientific laws and processes), thereby willfully ignoring special creation of all things in the beginning and then the global interruption of all processes by the flood. The uniformist approach to the study of earth history can only be valid back to the time of that worldwide flood at the most. Henry M. Morris

[viaveritasvita]

The second law of thermodynamics provides a powerful agrement against vertical evolution, stating the universally observed fact that all systems tend to disintegrate with time. It seems to correlate perfectly with the implied effects of the Fall of Mankind. Yet there is a temptation to question this correlation because of the assumption that most natural processes must have been operating in accordance with the second law of thermodynamics before the Fall. Henry M. Morris

[f.Christian]

We have the leaves falling up(unnatural) crowd here proving evolution . . .

if you don't see them go up - - -

you are blind by a belief in God(natural) ? ? ?

Weird ! ! !

[Doctor Stochastic]

The second law of thermodynamics provides a powerful agrement against vertical evolution, stating the universally observed fact that all systems tend to disintegrate with time.

The second law states no such thing. The second law states things Caratheodory's (l885-l955): Arbitrarily near to any given state there exist states which cannot be reached by means of adiabatic processes. For more see Second Law Link

[viaveritasvita]

"...you prefer human unreasoning?"

I prefer room for God as well as for human reasoning. (Was the screen name Dr. Sarcastic taken?)

[B. Rabbit]

We have the leaves falling up(unnatural) crowd here proving evolution . . .

if you don't see them go up - - -

you are blind by a belief in God(natural) ? ? ?

Weird ! ! !

OR. Creationists see the leaves go up, BUT FAIL TO SEE OR FEEL THE WIND THAT MADE IT SO, and assume that the supernatural did it.

When in doubt and when science has failed to provide an absolute and perfect argument, fall back on the old 'god-did-it'.

[f.Christian]

FR is a fishing fool // pool of plasma . . . potential life - - - rescue!

[f.Christian]

- - - glob-did-it is better . . . ? ? ?

[Nebullis]

Rocha is talking about origin of life. Even Yockey suggests that we just accept the origin of life as axiomatic and move on from there. If Yockey and Chaitin et al. compute a way that life could not have originated, then, fine, it couldn't have happened that way. There are many other ways life could have originated.

But when speaking of evolution via random mutation, the replication process is already in place. Origin of life arguments don't apply to probability of novel innovation via mutation.

[viaveritasvita]

Working over a 15 year period, ICR geologists have inventoried unusual fossils called nautiloids within the cliff-forming Redwall Limestone. Nautiloids are marine animals resembling a squid that lived within long, slender shells. Billions of large orthocone nautiloids up to six feet in length occur within a single seven-foot-thick layer that extends from Marble Canyon in extreme eastern Grand Canyon 180 miles westward to Lake Mead Blvd. in Las Vegas, NV. Dr. Steven Austin of ICR's Geology Dept. presented a paper on his discovery of the fossil stratum at the Geological Society of America on 10/30/02 in Denver, CO. Dr. Austin reported his theory that billions of large nautiloids were buried by a gigantic submarine sediment flow having regional extent. The sediment flow hydroplaned westward through northern AZ into NV so fast it smothered and buried marine animals within the single layer of Redwall Limestone. Geologists have been accustomed to thinking of millions of years to deposit Redwall Limestone. ICR geologists are reinterpreting the strata to have formed within minutes by catastrophic flood processes. Technical reports will be submitted to a peer-reviewed geology journal and the National Park Service describing Dr. Austin's evidence for the regionally extensive mass kill and burial event in the Grand Canyon region. Acts & Facts, ICR, Vol 32, #1, Jan 03

[B. Rabbit]

- - - glob-did-it is better . . . ? ? ?

When scientists, astonomers and biologists of the past discovered things that contradicted religious texts they were met with scorn and arguments similar to the above. The goal is to find out why things are the way they are. "Globdidit" is an attempt to warp my beliefs to YOUR beliefs. I will never say "glob-did-it". You will indeed say "god-did-it" and have already proven your tendency to use that argument. It is an unfair spin on your arguments.

[viaveritasvita]

Wind? Explain wind.

[f.Christian]

. . . unfair spin on your arguments.

unfair spin on your spin . . . too funny ! ! !

[B. Rabbit]

Billions of large orthocone nautiloids up to six feet in length occur within a single seven-foot-thick layer that extends from Marble Canyon in extreme eastern Grand Canyon 180 miles westward to Lake Mead Blvd. in Las Vegas, NV. Dr. Steven Austin of ICR's Geology Dept. presented a paper on his discovery of the fossil stratum at the Geological Society of America on 10/30/02 in Denver, CO. Dr. Austin reported his theory that billions of large nautiloids were buried by a gigantic submarine sediment flow having regional extent.

Billions is a large number for any species so large (6 feet) in such a short period of time between god's creation of earth and Noah's flood... How could so many be alive in such a small area so quickly?

[B. Rabbit]

Wind? Explain wind

umm... wind is like, um, air that is like... um.... moving around and stuff.

[viaveritasvita]

What are the roots that clutch, what branches grow out of this stony rubbish?...You cannot say, or guess, for you know only a heap of broken images... T. S. Eliot, The Wasteland

[Nebullis]

Thanks for that link. Sober makes a good point: there are no rejection criteria provided by ID to rule out current hypotheses. Low probabilities are not enough.