[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

This is mostly "the_doc"s exposition of John chapter six; and I am aware that some of you elect to engage in discussion with "the_doc" only on a selective basis.

BUT, it really is top-notch Protestant exegesis. It's much better than I do, anyway; at least usually (I am, after all, primarily an amateur Apologist, not an exceptional Theologian).

Even if only to INFORM YOURSELVES, I would commend you this article for your consideration.

Best, OP

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Alas, I have discovered that it is not worth reading the RCC's summaries of Augustine concerning this doctrine. The RCC consistently misrepresents what Augustine was saying. Rome's apologists have done this for almost five centuries. No kidding. Read Augustine's writings, not those who "interpret" his writings.

FWIW, "doc", the eminent Roman Catholic the reverend Father William Most does NOT misinterpret or misconstrue the teachings of the great Doctor Saint Augustine on the Biblical Doctrine of Absolute Predestination.

The reverend Father William Most has made a very honest admission, which relatively few Roman Catholics are willing to make: Fr. Most acknowledges that Doctor Saint Augustine taught that Divine Predestination is Double, Determinate, and Absolute.

And, believing (as do we all) that Augustine is NOT in-and-of-himself INFALLIBLE, the reverend Father William Most calls all of Roman Catholic magisterial teaching to his cause to demonstrate that Augustine's position on Absolute Divine Sovereignty is, in his opinion, quite mistaken according to the "Infallible Bar" of Roman Conciliar Tradition.

But that said, EVEN IF WE ADMIT the reverend Father Most's argument that Augustine WAS WRONG (and of course, here in America, Rev. Fr. William Most certainly enjoys the constitutional first-amendment Right to believe whatever he likes), it is important to recognize the premise that Fr. Most's analysis of Doctor Saint Augustine does admit.

And it is this, nothing less:

The reverend Father William Most, in acknowledging the Augustinian teaching of Absolute, Sovereign, Double Predestination and arguing that such a position is wrong, Fr. Most does at least honestly admit the Truth of the contention that...

...as concerns the Doctrine of Absolute Predestination...

SAINT AUGUSTINE HIMSELF WAS IN FACT ESSENTIALLY PROTESTANT, Lutheran, and Calvinist.

And of course, that's what we have always maintained.

The Romanists can argue that Doctor Saint Augustine was wrong (and indeed, we would even expect that they would argue thus!!); but unless the good reverend Father William Most was lying though his teeth, the fact of the matter is that...

...as concerns the Doctrine of Absolute Predestination...

SAINT AUGUSTINE HIMSELF WAS IN FACT ESSENTIALLY PROTESTANT, Lutheran, and Calvinist.

And as far as the Patristics go, that is what we have been saying all along.

[RnMomof7]

First class it is...thanks doc

Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.

[Polycarp]

Thanks for the pings, OP. But I just don't "do" debates based on anything from the author of this piece. An individual who privately displays such borderline personmality traits as he displayed in a previous private correspondence, holds no authority for me on this important issue.