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To: the_doc
2 Timothy 2:16 definitely does present the idea of the sufficiency of Scriptures--by the very way it segues into the very next verse.Except that it doesn't segue the way you need it to. Sripture is useful for what? Training, doctrine, correction, reproof, instruction in righteousness. Paul is clearly saying that scripture is a tool. A very useful tool in which to correct, reproof, train, etc. so that one may be equipped for every good work. It is the instruction that makes perfection, not the scripture itself, and that is what the Church's role is.

In verse 14, Paul refers to extrascriptural sources, and advises Timothy to continue in those things, which would contradict your interpretation of 3:16-17.

193 posted on 10/03/2002 3:50:42 PM PDT by St.Chuck
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To: St.Chuck; sandyeggo; Matchett-PI; OrthodoxPresbyterian
Except that it doesn't segue the way you need it to. Sripture is useful for what? Training, doctrine, correction, reproof, instruction in righteousness. Paul is clearly saying that scripture is a tool. A very useful tool in which to correct, reproof, train, etc. so that one may be equipped for every good work. It is the instruction that makes perfection, not the scripture itself, and that is what the Church's role is.

In verse 14, Paul refers to extrascriptural sources, and advises Timothy to continue in those things, which would contradict your interpretation of 3:16-17.

I have no intention of letting this thread go into endless digressions into Sola Scriptura issues, but I thought I should point out that your RC bias is causing you to stop at the end of 3:16--and then to try to add in the sense of 3:17.

That is an artificial way of reading the text. Verses 16 and 17 constitute a single sentence. As I pointed out to SD, the fact that the Scriptures are INSPIRED makes them directly useable by REGENERATE sinners to achieve completeness, to achieve a full fitness for every good work.

You have to be able to read, of course, but it doesn't take a spiritual genius to read stuff. And if you really have the Spirit of the Author--as all Christians do--it shouldn't be all that hard to understand the Author of the Inspired Scriptures.

That being the case, the RCC's insistence that the Church has to interpret the Scriptures for its members is tantamount to a confession that its members don't have the indwelling Spirit of Christ in the first place. That, in turn, means that the RCC is an organization of lost people who are inclined to stay lost--because the RCC arrogantly gets in the way and arrogantly stays in the way.

(The very idea of the RC priesthood is a good example of this. Richard Bennett points out that it is a phony mediation. It grants absolution to people who are just plain lost, and that keeps them from seeking the Lord for real!)

***

Your allusion to v.14 as referring to "extrascriptural sources" also means far less than you think. Verses 16 and 17 are still telling Timothy that the Scriptures are the key to completion and fitness, not the Church INTERPRETING the Scriptures.

BTW, since you went to v.14 to try to come up with an argument against Sola Scriptura, I will go to verse 13 to argue against Romanism (grin).

"But evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work."

The Scriptures themselves are the apex of the passage. This is obvious if you will read it as a unified text. But you will see this if and only if you don't bring your RC bias to the passage. And please notice that the passage I have quoted starts with a specific warning against pseudo-spiritual monsters.

That is more significant as a warning than you have realized. The Protestant would say that inasmuch as the Pope USURPS interpretive authority--and uses that "authority" to DEFY the Scriptures--the Papacy is one of the most monstrous institutions in the world.

Remember: The Scriptures FORBID Christians from calling anyone "Holy Father." However, the Pope EXPECTS people to honor him with that title.

The whole thing is a fraud. We shouldn't even be surprised about the rampant homosexuality in your RC priesthood. In my sober opinion, you really ought to be embarrassed about being a Romanist, friend. I'm afraid that the only thing which can prevent you from coming to the Light is religiously stubborn pride.

(Hey, I use the same line of argumentation with Democrats, Chuck. And it occasionally brings them to their senses. It just takes a while [grin].)

***

In short, you didn't really put a dent in my Sola Scriptura position. The filth in RCism disqualifies everything in your argument--since you are just reading your RC position INTO the text. You are depreciating the Scriptures and depreciating the experience of regeneration. (There is a reason for that. Please think about it.)

284 posted on 10/03/2002 8:32:59 PM PDT by the_doc
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