[ClancyJ]

Two things should change: 1) NO attacks should be permitted. NO personal attacks WHATSOEVER. One can argue a point without getting person. I am guilty of this offense, as we all are. But moderation should prevent it. 2) Mob gang-ups should be discouraged. If someone faces a tag-team of 5 or 7 people, all ridiculing a decent or cogent thought or premise, that is also not healthy for the forum.

Weren't you one of those on "the other" complaining about not being able to speak freely? Now you want to prevent others from speaking freely because things are not going like you like.

Maybe we don't speak in the manner you and the complainers wish. Therefore, we must be stopped. Only those of pure wisdom in the Libertarian/hate government/hate law genre should be allowed to rant and rave all they want.

[Lazamataz]

Weren't you one of those on "the other" complaining about not being able to speak freely?

No. I never once complained about not being able to speak freely.

Now you want to prevent others from speaking freely because things are not going like you like. Maybe we don't speak in the manner you and the complainers wish. Therefore, we must be stopped. Only those of pure wisdom in the Libertarian/hate government/hate law genre should be allowed to rant and rave all they want.

I have, combined with the input of many dozens of people (nearing a hundred or so) figured out that what lacks in this forum, and what makes it differ so much from before, is that civility is missing. A person cannot present a point of view or make an argument without the personal attacks flying. Your posts are wonderful examples of what I am speaking about.

That does not make for a place of enlightenment, but one big Bikers Bar. Most people don't like that sort of thing. So, they are leaving. Joe is trying to warn Jim, and Jim is not interested in changing anything. So be it, at least he will have you.