Our Republic and Our Free Republic

9-6-02 | Joe Phillips

[BADJOE]

History teaches some very good lessons. They are hard to learn but our forefathers did a great job.

From the beginning of time man has overthrown one form of centralized government only to re-establish another one in its place. Our forefathers understood this far better than anyone ever had. They said governments are the eternal enemy of free men. They said that in order for man to remain free it would take a bloody revolution every other generation, unless you bound down (bastard) government with the chains of the constitution.

On another site this week a poster asked if anyone else hated government as much as he did. I replied to him

"Hell !! I thought you were not a good American if you didn't love our country and hate our government.

At least that is how I have always felt about it"

I think our forefathers had the same attitude that I have now. And I think it is inherent in the average Americans attitude to distrust and have disdain for any government, including ours. One of the hardest conclusions I had to arrive at as a young man, after having been a product of the public school system, was that our government was not on our side. As James Forrestahl, former secretary of the Navy, who suffered a mysterious death, once said about our State Department's foreign policy, " Stupidity is never a mark of consistancy. If they were merely stupid, they would occasionally make a mistake in our favor".

Newt Gringrich put it in a humourous manner when talking about the attitude of Europeans. He related the following story. If you go to Europe and drive on the Autobahn, you feel pretty good cruising down the highway at 100 mph when some some German passes you doing 140 mph. Now he said if the Bundestag passed the 55mph speed limit law, every German would dutifully obey that law, untill the next election. They would vote the 55 mph crowd out of office and the no speed limit crowd in. In America Newt said "A speed limit sign is a benchmark of opportunity.

It is obvious that Yankees and Euros have entirely different attitudes about government's edicts. There are darn few Americans who do not break the speed limit laws everyday.

Now we come to the Free Republic. Once a free wheeling, joyful site for news and discussion of politics, economics, philosophy, ethics and morals. I could not understand the transformation that has taken place in the last six months. Camaraderie, the sense of family, and cooperation seems to have disappeared. Are the Freepers exhibiting the same disdain for the new FR as Americans have for our government?

[Mudboy Slim]

"I don't think you'll get 60 this time around jim... it's gonna be hard enough to just get a slight majority, no?"

I sincerely believe 53 or 54 is a distinct possibility, my FRiend...and that shall be when we go into action demanding the true conservative agenda this Country needs.

FReegards...MUD

[hchutch]

Ensign lost to Reid in 1998 because two third-party candidates each had siphoned off more than enough votes to have sent Harry Reid into retirement. Figure any Republican with a pulse would have won the open seat in Nevada in 2000, and that's one seat when we could have had two.

Slade Gorton lost to Maria Cantwell due to a Libertarian in 2000. That's two.

Lest anyone think I only condemn conservatives, I have been a vociferous critic of John Warner for his stab in the back of Ollie North in 1994, of Donnie DiFrancesco for what happened to Bret Schundler last year, and I condemn the RINO in PA who is supporting Ed Rendell for governor this year.

None of those three backstabbers will EVER get my vote.

[Mo1]

The United States is going to pass through the window of opportunity for voluntarily privatizing Social Security without any generational sacrificies in roughly five years. When that window closes, it will no longer be possible for a political solution that people will accept or that politicians will be willing to impose. At that point it is absolute certainty that they will attempt to monetize the unfunded liabilities of Social Security and Medicare.

The Window of Opporunity??? .. and you think letting the Democrates win is that Opporunity??

The United States is dangerously close to being a practical democracy now. No democracy in history has survived beyond 200 years. When the people find out that they can vote themselves financial benefits, it becomes irreversible and escalates until the currency or the credit of the country is destroyed. The United States is less than fifteen years from that point

Hummmm .. we only have fifteen years huh?? ..

To be completely candid, if we can't have conservative Republicans willing to roll back government, I would prefer to have the Democrats in power. We might get to the edge of the cliff a little sooner

You see .. to me this is nothing but a suicide mission .. and to me suicides are for cowards .. I'd rather fight the RATS and get them out of office

[B. A. Conservative]

Yours is the path of suicide. The Contract with Congress is the only path to defeating the Democrats and at the same time defeating the Democratic agenda as well.

There are a couple of ideas that you are failing to grasp. First, as long as it is the Democratic agenda that is being advanced, it doesn't really matter whether it is advanced by Democrats or Republicans. And in the final analysis, it doesn't matter how fast or how slow the Democratic agenda is being advanced. The reality is that the US goes steadily downhill until we get to the edge of the cliff. Then it won't matter who is in charge, gravity takes over and we free fall to the bottom.

Second, and of far greater significance, you are the one who is assuming that Republicans will not respond to our demands by refusing to adopt the Contract with Congress. Are you afraid or don't want to ask your Republican candidates to stand on the Contract with Congress? Do you want a man in office who will not support such a Contract? If Republican candidates are not willing to stand on such a Contract and Republican voters (Freepers in particular- and Jim Robinson, I am pointedly addressing you) are not willing to demand that Republicans stand for the Constitution; then the United States has already attempted suicide and the sooner it is dead, the sooner we will all have another shot at freedom. Our present government is a tryanny. It is a tryanny of the majority. Many of our most important Constitutional rights have been stripped from our citizens, personal property rights being very high on list. Our existing government is unacceptable and if not subject to reform, it should be abolished. And instead of trying to win this or the 2004 election, I should be devoting my efforts to secession. The government we have is not worth saving or fighting for. I refuse to live under such tyranny. I suspect there will be an ever growing number of Americans that agree with me.

If you remain unconvinced, for the time being, we will chalk you, and maybe Jim Robinson, up to the 40% camp of Republican voters who will waste their votes and be irrelevant in changing the course of the United States or its downhill course set by the Democratic agenda. My efforts are directed at the 5-10% of enlightened voters who are willing to try and make a difference in an effort to save the legacy handed down to us by the Founders and the millions of Americans who have shed their blood fighting for freedom. In my opinion, those who prefer Republicans unwilling to cast their votes for the Constitution, are an affront to that legacy. And those who are willing to accept Republicans who support socialism because they might vote with other Republicans if votes on conservative issues ever come to the floor of Congress or merely because they don't wear the label of Democrats are blind or fools; take you pick, you seem to know that group better than I.

Give me a candidate that I am eager to vote for, or don't let me vote at all.

[hchutch]

"In my opinion, those who prefer Republicans unwilling to cast their votes for the Constitution, are an affront to that legacy."

And in my opinion, those who would allow perfect to be the enemy of good, thereby giving us the bad, are talkers who don't have the guts to put it on the line when the rubber meets the road.

[BADJOE]

I am still with you.

This discussion reminds me of Henry Wallace, One of FDR's vice Presidents and Socialist candidate for President in 1948

In explaininmg socialism Mr Wallace said.

" Under socialism you will be forcefully fed well, forcefully clothed well, and forcefully housed well, and while you are ALLOWED to live, you will be forcefully fed, clothed and housed well."

"However there are some people that no matter what we do for them do not fit in, and in the end they must be peacefully liquidated".

Therein my friends lies the difference betwwen communism and socialism. The communists want to violently liquidate you, while the socialist will do it peacefully.

The RESULT is the same. You are DEAD either way.

Same principle applies when it comes to voting for a RHINO SOCIALIST REPUBLICAN.

You are ENSLAVED by government either way

[tpaine]

Careful there joe, you'll get the thread pulled for 'anarchy'.

[carenot]

The two parties involved are the Republicans and the Democrats.

But, durn it! It seems to me the Republicans atre out democratin' the Democrats.

We vote straight Republican and they vote like a Democrat. What good is that?

[B. A. Conservative]

I am fighting for freedom and the restoration of the Constitution the United States as the law of land. That's what I have on the line.

What have you got on the line that's worth while?

And I'm not asking for perfection, but I am demanding satisfactory. You seem to disagree with me about what should be acceptable to Conservatives seeking freedom or a committment to enforce the Constitution, and seem willing to accept socialism, so as long as it's not too much, too quick and administered or Doled out by Republicans. When the rubber meets the road, my brakes are going to stop the descent into socialism and lift us back to freedom. Your rubber on the road reminds me of liberals handing out condums to queers to prevent aids or pregnancies in school kids, half-baked ideas full of holes.

[carenot]

Being in Texas I don't have to worry too much about Rinos.

Other than President Bush?

[hchutch]

I'm trying to make sure I'm not taxed into oblivion to pay for the transfer of wealth.

For the most part, I'm happy with the job the Republicans can do. I stand with Jim Robinson on the solution.

Furthermore, I'll lay this out. Here in Virginia, I SAW a good candidate knifed in the back in 1994. I condemned the person who put the knife into the back of that candidate's Senate campaign, and to be consistent, I've challenged others who have done the same thing, both from the Left (DiFrancesco and that witch in PA) and on the right (the "unappeaseables" and third-party crowd).

Ask Priscilla Owen and Charles Pickering if there really is no difference between Republicans and Democrats. They'll tell you otherwise.

Eight years ago, I'd have thoguht differently, but I learned my lesson after watching people reach for too much at once. I'll stick to my guns on this, and I'll fix it. If you want to complain about how it's not fast enough, you will be ignored, because quite frankly, I do NOT think your efforts are being applied in the right direction, and I have NO problem saying so.

[carenot]

Give me a candidate that I am eager to vote for, or don't let me vote at all.

Well, in 1996 after the "Contract With America" fiasco, I wasn't going to vote at all. I was betrayed by Newt Gingrich.

I let my eldest son talk me into voting. I did the straight Republican thing. I won't again.

I will vote for the candidate, whatever he is.

[carenot]

Eight years ago, I'd have thoguht differently, but I learned my lesson after watching people reach for too much at once. I'll stick to my guns on this, and I'll fix it. If you want to complain about how it's not fast enough, you will be ignored, because quite frankly, I do NOT think your efforts are being applied in the right direction, and I have NO problem saying so.

Nevermind if it is going fast enough, it seems to be going backward.

HeHeee, "crawfishin'".

[Amelia]

Give me a candidate that I am eager to vote for, or don't let me vote at all.

Good move. Then when the Democrats get elected, all the politicians will think that's what the VOTERS want.

I suppose I need to include the requisite /sarcasm tag.

[BADJOE]

You mean it will get pulled for speaking of that wonderful non government that explored, settled and civilized the American West?

Nah ! It'll never happen.

They don't have the guts.

[carenot]

They don't have the guts.

Maybe not, Joe. But it seems to me a lot of the threads I wanted to reply to have been pulled.

[BADJOE]

Welllll as RR used to say. One only needs to start a few threads that run 2500 to 3500 posts and they'll leave you alone.

Of cousre you have to be willin' to take a little heat, but they get lots worse. : )

[exodus]

To: B. A. Conservative
"...The RESULT is the same. You are DEAD either way. Same principle applies when it comes to voting for a RHINO SOCIALIST REPUBLICAN. You are ENSLAVED by government either way."
# 2506 by BADJOE

*************************

Very good point, BADJOE.

A socialist is a socialist, even if he calles himself a Republican.

I will not vote for a socialist.

B. A. Conservative, I agree with your "Contract with Congress" barring one point.

I will not stay home.

If we stay home and withhold our vote from the Republicans, without voting for a conservative third party, we become a statistic. A statistic can be bent into any shape a politician desires.

A vote for a third party conservative is a vote for a conservative, and will be seen as a vote for a conservative.

An election should not be subject to guesswork.

I want them to KNOW what it takes to win my vote.

[BADJOE]

Attaboy.

[carenot]

I shall give him a gold star.