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To: Tau Food
They knew that secession involved overthrowing the government of the United States (at least in the South)

It is impossible to have a real discussion when you are at that ridiculous starting point. I reject that entire premise. There is something wrong with your ability to disseminate information, secession overthrows NOTHING.

"The withdrawal of a State from a league has no revolutionary or insurrectionary characteristic. The government of the State remains unchanged as to all internal affairs. It is only its external or confederate relations that are altered. To term this action of a Sovereign a 'rebellion' is a gross abuse of language."

Jeff Davis, President CSA

815 posted on 08/14/2013 7:31:39 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va

Which is sort of like saying that if I chop off your arms and legs, it can’t really be considered an assault because I left your liver intact.


816 posted on 08/14/2013 8:37:38 AM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: central_va
I appreciate Jeff Davis's argument. It reflects his view that, despite the Constitution, the United States remained nothing more than just a league of states. His argument takes no account of the new constitutional relationships between individual Americans and the United States government.

I think Patrick Henry's view of the effect of the Constitution was more accurate. Henry argued that the Constitution should not be ratified because it was apparent to him from the text of the proposed Constitution that its effect would be to convert the existing "confederation" of states into a "great consolidated government" created by "we the people of the United States" rather than "we the states." In short, Jeff Davis apparently refused to acknowledge what Patrick Henry saw as obvious.

As an individual, I have personal constitutional rights as an American citizen. I have first amendment rights to speech, religion and press. I have second amendment rights to own a personal firearm. I have the right to vote for individuals to represent me in the U.S. Congress. If my state proposes to sentence me to live in one of its dungeons or to kill me, I have a right to a trial, I have a right to be represented by an attorney, I have a right to be judged by a jury and a slough of other procedural rights. Also, I have the right to seek the assistance of a United States district court if my state chooses to disregard my rights under the United States Constitution. Jeff Davis's argument that secession does not affect the "internal affairs" within the seceding state ignores the fact that secession by my state immediately strips me of my American citizenship and immediately strips me of every one of my rights under the United States Constitution.

Do you know of a way for a state to secede without stripping American citizens within the seceding state of their American citizenship and of all of the constitutional rights that are afforded to them under the U.S. Constitution?

819 posted on 08/14/2013 6:11:17 PM PDT by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
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