Jefferson vs Lincoln: America Must Choose

Tenth Amendment Center. ^ | 2010 | Josh Eboch

[rustbucket]

On a recent excursion to the library, I found where a rupture had taken place between Winfield Scott and Buchanan (Feb 1, 1861 New York Times): "There is no longer any doubt that a serious rupture has taken place between the President and Gen. Scott ..." The paper said this was because Buchanan had been more "vacilating [sic] and willful relative to the secession movement" than Scott.

At this time Scott was pushing for the reinforcement of the remaining forts in Union hands consistent with Lincoln's December letter to be ready to reinforce or retake the forts at or after Lincoln's inauguration. Scott, the General-in-chief, sent the January 21 order sending the Brooklyn to reinforce Fort Pickens [Link].

The secret mission of the Brooklyn was discovered and its objective published in the papers. When faced with the likelihood that war would result, Buchanan backed off and sent orders to stop the Brooklyn. Perhaps this and other differences of opinion were behind the "serious rupture" reported a few days later in the New York Times. Lincoln's meddling may have contributed to the rupture.

[Non-Sequitur]

Even if it were, which it is not, it would be better than having Lincoln as your leader, the president who twisted the Constitution into a Klein bottle and chose war over peace. Over 600,000 dead because of him (and Anderson).

So in your view it's much better to have leaders like Davis or Gaddafi or Ahmadinejad or Hugo Chavez who just ignore their constitutions entirely. What world are you living in?

[central_va]

"I love the Union and the Constitution, but I would rather leave the Union with the Constitution than remain in the Union without it"

             --Jefferson Davis

Sounds like a Chavez type dictator to me.

[Idabilly]

If the Declaration of Independence be true (and who here gainsays it?), every community may dissolve its connection with any other community previously made, and have no other obligation than that which results from the breach of an alliance between States. Is it to be supposed; could any man . . . come to the conclusion that the men who fought the battles of the Revolution . . . in order that they might possess those unalienable rights which they had declared—terminated their great efforts by transmitting posterity to a condition in which they could only gain those rights by force? If so, the blood of the Revolution was shed in vain...

—Jefferson Davis

[Cincincinati Spiritus]

And I agree that “any state can leave if the contract has been violated”

Clarify: how leave?

[Non-Sequitur]

"I hates the Constitution, this "Great Republic," too!
I hates the Freedman's Bureau and uniforms of blue!
I hates the nasty eagle with all its brags and fuss,
And the lying, thieving Yankees, I hates 'em wuss and wuss!

I hates the Yankee nation and everything they do,
I hates the Declaration of Independence, too!
I hates the "Glorious Union" -- 'tis dripping with our blood,
And I hates their striped banner, and I fit it all I could"

-- Innes Randolph

A far more accurate description of your views and those of your compatriots, I think.

[Idabilly]

General Order No. 38

That hereafter all persons found within our lines who commit acts for the benefit of the enemies of our country, will be tried as spies or traitors, and, if convicted, will suffer death. This order includes the following classes of persons: ... The habit of declaring sympathies for the enemy will no longer be tolerated in the department. Persons committing such offences will be at once arrested, with a view to being tried as above stated, or sent beyond our lines into the lines of their friends.

North vs South, Doesn't give Lincoln or his army enough credit. Lincoln's army vs Freedom - is more appropriate.

[cowboyway]

If the Declaration of Independence be true (and who here gainsays it?), every community may dissolve its connection with any other community previously made, and have no other obligation than that which results from the breach of an alliance between States. Is it to be supposed; could any man . . . come to the conclusion that the men who fought the battles of the Revolution . . . in order that they might possess those unalienable rights which they had declared—terminated their great efforts by transmitting posterity to a condition in which they could only gain those rights by force? If so, the blood of the Revolution was shed in vain... —Jefferson Davis

I'll take Davis' word over non-senses, Lincoln's or Obama's any day.

[Non-Sequitur]

I'll take Davis' word over non-senses, Lincoln's or Obama's any day.

No big surprise there.

[cowboyway]

And the lying, thieving Yankees, I hates 'em wuss and wuss!
I hates the Yankee nation and everything they do,

That about sums it up.........

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

So then you do agree that all the left-handers in your county could declare themselves to be their own country.

[central_va]

Major Randolph had more honor in his little finger than the entire Night Crawler Brigade.

[Non-Sequitur]

Major Randolph had more honor in his little finger than the entire Night Crawler Brigade.

Hate the Constitution. Hate the Declaration of Independence. Hate the country and hate the flag. Hate, hate, hate. No wonder you love him.

[Non-Sequitur]

That about sums it up.........

Don't forget the part about hating the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence and the flag and the whole country. Wouldn't want to cut your hatred short would you?

[central_va]

Nobody follows that "living document" anymore. It is not a suicide pact. It is just a piece of paper, the actual natural law and God given rights are more important than their codification. From your favorite Movie:

Ten Bears: These things you say we will have, we already have.

Josey Wales: That's true. I ain't promising you nothing extra. I'm just giving you life and you're giving me life. And I'm saying that men can live together without butchering one another.

Ten Bears: It's sad that governments are chiefed by the double tongues. There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. No signed paper can hold the iron. It must come from men. The words of Ten Bears carries the same iron of life and death. It is good that warriors such as we meet in the struggle of life... and death. It shall be life.

[Non-Sequitur]

Nobody follows that "living document" anymore. It is not a suicide pact. It is just a piece of paper, the actual natural law and God given rights are more important than their codification.

Hate the Constitution. Hate the Declaration of Independence. Hate the country and hate the flag. Hate, hate, hate. It's what you all do best.

From your favorite Movie...

Good Lord, can quotes from "Gods and Generals" and "Gangs of New York" be far behind?

[central_va]

He loved his country the

Confederate States of America

End the occupation!

God bless you Major Randolph!!!!

[Non-Sequitur]

He loved his country the Confederate States of America

And he hated this one and everything to do with it. Just like you.

[Idabilly]

“Good Lord, can quotes from “Gods and Generals””

Just as we would not send any of our soldiers to march in other states, and tyrannize other people... so will we never allow the armies of others to march into our states and tyrannize our people.
General Jackson

[Non-Sequitur]

"Let us cross over the river and rest under the shade of the trees." - Thomas Jackson

At least they got one quote accurately.