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Just Say NO to Mcbama and Ocain! [thread left up as a pinata, rules suspended-Jim]
Gentlewood Journal ^ | 10-27-2008 | Dan Jacobson

Posted on 10/29/2008 11:56:01 AM PDT by agrandis

Various of my friends and members of my extended family are urging me to vote for Sen. John McCain for President in the rapidly approaching general election. Few of them have much or anything positive to say about McCain himself, but they tell me that the dangers presented by the election of Barack Obama leaves us no alternative but to vote for McCain, thus blocking an Obama presidency. As always, we are told on all fronts that this is the "most important election in history."

For several reasons, I disagree with these friends and family members that our only alternative is to vote for John McCain.

Claim: McCain is the lesser of two evils.

There is not a real difference between the two presidential candidates of the major political parties in philosophy, worldview, or integrity. One is Black, and one is White. One is old, and one is young. I claim that, in spite of the rhetoric, this is where the differences end. In recent sound bites, on the topic of personal liberty and the Constitution, Obama sounds slightly more conservative than McCain. On abortion, McCain sounds a little more conservative than Obama. On foreign policy, McCain sounds slightly more hyper-interventionist than Obama, and neither sound conservative. But when you consider all of the rhetoric, their records, and the practical implications of their stated goals, all the supposed differences melt away, and we are left with another Bush Administration, or another Clinton Administration, with a slightly different flavor, but the same old direction for our nation: rapidly toward more foreign interventionism, more economic interventionism, more suppression of liberty, more complete reliance on government, more tax funding for all manner of evil, including abortion, unjust war, welfare for politically connected multinational corporations, more official corruption, and, eventually, bankruptcy, chaos and/or brutal totalitarianism.

To know how a President McCain would govern in the realm of economics, one only has to remember his actions of a few weeks ago, when he pushed for unprecedented powers for the Secretary of Treasury, and, along with Bush's urging and Obama's help, lead the way for the Senate to pass the infamous bailout bill, which was the exact bill which angry voters had just persuaded the House to reject, only now with over 450 pages of earmarks (pork), tax "extenders," and new powers for the IRS added to it. McCain publicly chided House Republicans for listening to their constituents and stopping the first monstrous bill in the House! Bush and McCain and Obama told us we were all going to suffer financial ruin if we did not pipe down and hand over our children's wallets to the banksters. Now that they have had their way, we have seen dramatic drops in all of the world's stock markets. What better example do we need to see that McCain and Obama are on the same page when it comes to economics?

What about the right to be armed? Surely McCain is better than Obama on that issue? For the answer to that question, I would direct the reader to this web address: http://www.gunowners.org/mccaintb.htm. It is a compendium put together by Gun Owner's of America, of John McCain's gun-control record.

What about immigration? More than even most Democrats, McCain has been a consistent advocate of uncontrolled immigration. In 2007, he was the co-sponsor of the McCain-Kennedy Act, which sought, among other things, to legalize the millions of illegal immigrants currently in the country. This was being pushed during the jostling for position in the primary elections, and was a very unpopular bill among the Republican rank-and-file in an election in which opposition to unchecked immigration was expected to play a huge role. Yet, somehow, John McCain managed to win the primary popular vote. Incidentally, none other than Barack Obama was an ardent supporter of this act, and also a co-sponsor.

The environment? See McCain-Lieberman Climate Stewardship Act.

Free speech? See the McCain-Feingold Act, a famously unconstitutional piece of legislation.

Foreign policy? Both candidates have advocated aggressive interventionism and nation-building. Both support our illogical and immoral policies in the Balkans, and hypocritically support the independence of a Muslim Kosovo, but oppose the independence of South Ossetia from Georgia. Both want to increase and expand our current quagmire in the Middle East.

Abortion, I am told, is where the important difference lies between John McCain and Barack Obama. Barack Obama is famously tolerant of all abortions, any time, any where. McCain, on the other hand, currently claims to be pro-life, and promises to select judges that are "strict constructionists," implying that he would nominate justices to the Supreme Court who would overturn Roe vs. Wade, if given the chance. But John McCain has flip-flopped on this issue, like so many others in his political career, several times. He has made statements in recent years that he does not want to see Roe vs Wade overturned. Also, McCain's role in promoting justice David Souter, the currently important role of Warren Rudman in McCain's campaign, and his voting record for past nominations in the Senate, is an indication of what kind of Supreme Court justices we really would get under a McCain presidency; they are not likely to be justices that would vote to overturn Roe vs Wade.

John McCain has repeatedly stated his support for Federal funding of embryonic stem cell research, and has even implied that it should be increased.

McCain shows no tendencies to stop the over $1 billion of Federal funds that go to the Planned Parenthood Federation of America every year, and under a McCain presidency, funding for this and other abortion "services" would likely increase, as it has under the Bush Administration. Until those of us who are pro-life get away from the distraction of the fight for the Supreme Court, and trying to Federalize laws against a certain kind of murder, and instead focus on the right of a state to protect the lives of its citizens without Federal interference, and, more importantly, insist that those politicians who call themselves pro-life do all they can within their sphere to stop the taxpayer funding of abortions and pro-abortion propaganda, we will never make any political ground against the Culture of Death. It's easy to call oneself pro-life, but it's another thing to stand for life consistently.

Although conservatives today have chosen to support nearly all wars waged by the Federal government, and believe any and all justifications for these wars, unjust and needless wars are also the taking of innocent lives. In other words, it is state-sponsored mass murder. Why do we rightly speak out against the evil slaughter of millions of babies through abortion, but tolerate and even support the needless slaughter of hundreds of thousands of babies in other countries in wars that are based on government falsehoods and flimsy justifications?

Claim: McCain has better character.

Others will admit that there is no essential difference between the politics of McCain and Obama, but that Obama is a man of bad character, and associates with bad eggs, while McCain is a war hero.

While I, too, am very disturbed by Obama's personal and political associations, and do think his character is a relevant and important topic, I am equally disturbed by the associations of John McCain. Disturbingly, there is even some overlap in the nefarious associations of the two men. In the interest of space, I will leave it to the reader to investigate for themselves the following partial list of associations with John McCain: The regime in Libya, the regime in Georgia (the country, not the state), mob boss Joe "Bananas" Bonano, Charles Keating (how can we forget that?), George Soros, and Juan Hernandez (McCain's Director of Hispanic Outreach).

As for the designation of John McCain as a war hero, it is indisputable that he was shot down on a bombing raid, and that he spent over 5 years as a Prisoner of War (POW) in North Vietnam. However, what happened to him as a POW is disputed. Many Vietnam veterans, including some of his fellow POWs, claim that McCain cooperated with his communist captors without undergoing the torture he claims was administered. They claim that he was given special treatment by the North Vietnamese, because of his special status as the son of an Admiral, and because of his willingness to cooperate in producing propaganda with them.

These men who make these claims are also veterans, and were also held captive by the enemy as POWs, so there is no reason to automatically discount their claims, or to say they are less credible than McCain because of McCain's status as a war hero. Two things give credence to their claims, in my view. One is the frequency with which John McCain lies today (he has been caught in too many blatant and public lies to itemize here), proving that the truth is not something he finds to be important. Secondly, John McCain, as a US Senator, has doggedly stonewalled attempted investigations into the fate of the many POWs and MIAs left in Southeast Asia. The surviving loved ones of the many missing US Servicemen have been publicly belittled by McCain, and have been the recipients of displays of his famous violent temper, for simply wanting to know the truth about the fate of their missing family members. Further, McCain stated that no POWs in Vietnam were interrogated by Soviet agents. We now know through evidence and testimony that has since come to public light that this statement is not true, and also that McCain had to have known it was not true, based on his seat in the Senate. The demeanor of McCain toward these surviving family members of POWs and MIAs and their advocates, and his tireless efforts (teaming up with Senator John Kerry) to block their searches for answers, seems incongruous with his claims regarding his years as a POW.

John McCain's military career before being shot down in Vietnam was spotty, at best. He was known as a party animal, and lost five aircraft, including the one shot down over North Vietnam. Only two of these crashes could be considered combat-related, including a fiery explosion on an aircraft carrier that killed 134 sailors.

While I'm writing about character, I will mention the fact that McCain left his first wife after she was in a car wreck that left her confined to a wheelchair, for a younger, much richer woman who has better political connections. He may repudiate the foolishness of his youth, and one need not be perfect to advocate virtue, but the abandonment of his first wife does understandably cast doubt on his character, and does not put him on strong moral ground to advocate family values.

Claim: McCain's no good, but his VP pick is:

Some argue that I should vote for John McCain because of his running mate, Sarah Palin. They agree that there is no difference in the character or policy views of McCain and Obama, but that McCain is old, and may die in office, and the true conservative Palin will take his place. But leaving aside doubts of the stories about her fighting corruption within the GOP in Alaska, and whether her professed feminism is good or bad for her family and our society, Sarah Palin shows her true colors by even being willing to be the running mate of John McCain, and being willing to promote him and his politics. She has embraced McCain's politics, and has already been willing to compromise her past views. If she is half the woman her supporters think she is, she will be somehow removed by the current corrupt GOP leaders, or she will remove herself.

In conclusion, I believe that a John McCain presidency would be at least as bad for our nation and our families as an Obama presidency, and perhaps even worse, since he would be falsely viewed as the conservative choice of the voters, though he would run the country in no appreciably different way than would Barack Hussein Obama. (I use the phrase "run the country" because thanks to the Congresses and the Administrations of the last 20 years, the President of the United States is for all practical purposes a dictator.) As we have seen with George W Bush, a Republican President gets support from much of the conservative portion of the population when he does things that would incite near riot by the same people if he were a Democrat. Therefore, perhaps it is better for a Democrat to hold that obscenely powerful position for now, with the hope for some popular resistance to his actions, and some unity in the opposition among conservatives.

Each election, conservatives reluctantly vote for someone for President who is more progressive, more socialistic, and less Constitutional than the candidate in the previous election. When will it end? When will we say "no more?"

I have decided to vote for Chuck Baldwin, of the Constitution Party. I urge all Americans who are tired of the lawlessness, corruption, and increasing totalitarianism of our current government to vote with me for Chuck Baldwin, or to vote for another Third Party, or to write in someone else, or to not vote for President at all. Don't throw away your vote! Why choose between drowning and hanging? Why choose between Benito Mussolini and Vladimir Lenin? This election, let's not give these nihilistic demagogues our consent to govern us. Just say no to Ocain and Mcbama!

Thanks for reading...

Dan Jacobson


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: chuchandchong; chuchbaldwin; election; getthezotout; ikinhazzot; mccain; obama; zot; zotfestival
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To: agrandis
A breath of fresh air?

...and your tagline says: "What kind of nation sends its women into combat?"

I'll gladly tell you what kind of nation. The kind that has asshats like you throwing away votes to let a Marxist in power that has ALREADY claimed he intends to do that very thing!

Good Lord I wish you people would wake up out of your alternate universes.

181 posted on 10/29/2008 2:31:33 PM PDT by houeto ("Drill Here! Drill Now!" & "Go Palin, Go!")
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To: fanfan
Break is over?

Unfortunately not - and I am wasting too much time on here. But why you ask?

182 posted on 10/29/2008 2:32:31 PM PDT by agrandis (What kind of nation sends its women into combat?)
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To: houeto
I'll gladly tell you what kind of nation. The kind that has asshats like you throwing away votes...

Are you opposed to women in combat?

183 posted on 10/29/2008 2:34:41 PM PDT by agrandis (What kind of nation sends its women into combat?)
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To: agrandis
...and will fight for it to the death.

You may have to if Obama wins. I'll hold you to that.

184 posted on 10/29/2008 2:36:54 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Sarah Palin! Need I say more?)
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To: Kaslin

“My suggestion to you is to sit home and not vote at all, then to vote for someone who has 0.000001 percent chance of getting elected”

That’s mind-bogglingly stupid. Someone who goes to vote for Baldwin is going to vote for downticket Republicans. Why the hell would you encourage a Baldwin voter to stay home? Do you want the Dems to get a supermajority in the House and Senate?


185 posted on 10/29/2008 2:39:08 PM PDT by MetallurgicalConservative
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To: 1rudeboy; jimrob
He can't do that, here. If he does, future visitors to the thread will see the headline and the "Comment removed by Moderator", put 2 and 2 together, and get 5.

All they have to do is put Comment removed by moderator at poster's request.

It don't matter, I was just saying. I would do it and have done so before.

Surely you don't believe Jim would put up with a bunch of profanity laden posts, even with the rules suspension.

I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

186 posted on 10/29/2008 2:40:35 PM PDT by houeto ("Drill Here! Drill Now!" & "Go Palin, Go!")
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To: Lauren BaRecall
You may have to if Obama wins. I'll hold you to that.

I won't be counting on you, in the meantime.

187 posted on 10/29/2008 2:40:46 PM PDT by agrandis (What kind of nation sends its women into combat?)
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To: agrandis
But why you ask?

Because a vote not cast for McCain/Palin, is a vote for 0bama.

Duh.

188 posted on 10/29/2008 2:42:25 PM PDT by fanfan (SCC:Canadians have constitutional protection to all opinions, as long as they are based on the facts)
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To: agrandis
Are you opposed to women in combat?

Absolutely. Hussein will help make it happen though, if that's what your into.

189 posted on 10/29/2008 2:44:41 PM PDT by houeto ("Drill Here! Drill Now!" & "Go Palin, Go!")
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To: houeto

Wanting Sarah Palin to be President must mean I’m a troll. You can’t be serious.

I don’t want John McCain in the White House. I don’t see any scenario in which a McCain presidency ends well for the Republican Party. The BEST case is that we have four years of complete ineffectiveness, followed by a very nasty primary battle in 2012 where we’ll either have four more years of McCain or a very bloodied and bruised nominee from a vicious primary battle, easy pickings for Hillary.

Alternately, Obama wins and we have a Palin/Jindal ticket in 2012 sailing to the nomination without much trouble at all, straight into an electorate sick of the socialism.

A vote for Baldwin says “Show me something better in 2012, please.” A vote for McCain says “I like amnesty!” A vote for Obama says “Cuckoo!”


190 posted on 10/29/2008 2:48:33 PM PDT by MetallurgicalConservative
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To: agrandis

You can count on me that I will fight for my freedom by voting against Obama, by voting for the only candidate that can beat him.

I will vote for McCain, because I cherish my freedom and my ability to keep owning my home.


191 posted on 10/29/2008 2:50:26 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Sarah Palin! Need I say more?)
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To: MetallurgicalConservative
My dream is to someday see a conservative candidate for president who can win on the pure strength of his own ideas and own rhetoric, without even a second wasted on negative campaigning against the opponent. I am extremely turned off by negative campaigning.

Most liberal trolls feel that way.

192 posted on 10/29/2008 2:53:54 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (When you said to me, you are not so old, did I know it then, 'cause I had just been told)
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To: agrandis

Don’t let them drive you crazy.

There are lots of Republicans out there who feel just like you do. The party has left us and all that is left in its wake are some hysterical tin pot banging caterwaulers brainlessly yawlping about how “important” it is to vote for them. They respond with gibbering frothing hatred whenever someone dares to call them what they are, which is bootlicking statists, as long as it is OUR statists.

We had a Republican congress and president for 6 years and we got NOTHING, zip zero nada on the abortion issue. That nut from Texas who keeps obnoxiously bringing up something called the “constitution” ..., I can’t remember his name but he is the one constantly harranguing us about spending and overcommitting our military...., anyway, he puts up a bill EVERY YEAR to define human life at beginning at conception. None of the gutless wonders in the so called “conservative” party will bother to co sponsor. George Bush has outspent Clinton on domestic issues almost 2:1. Our republican party has unleashed more federal power on and intrusion into the lives of the average citizen than the socialists ever dreamed of. If this is what a “conservative” is, then count me out. If our forefathers had envisioned this, they would have outrun Bill Ayres to stand on a flag representing such nonsense.

You can stand for ideals, or you can get misty eyed about the heritage of ideals and hope no one notices you are burying those ideals in the name of defending them.

Sarah Palin is wonderful, and someone who may cause me to spit the pickle out making me so ***** sour and actually vote for McCain, but I swear I would have written in Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin..., or Ebeneezer McFudamoe if it had not been for her. I am puking sick to death of the Republican party, its lying thieving, sick corrupt leaders and its hypocrisy. It is the same reason I despise some pastor who is found out to be secretly molesting children, or sodomizing on the sly, or stealing money from the church. The reason is that he is simply mouthing words he does not mean and does not care squat for, in order to gain position and power and money.

I do recognize that politics is about compromise, and I am not going to sit bawling in a corner posturing like the next Quixote who demands perfection before you can get MY sterling pure vote. However, nothing really remains in the Republican party principles of the ideals that brought me from cynicism and apathy into the belly of the Republican Party in 1980 (voted for Ford in 76, but held my nose).

So, launch some diatribe about how you can “thank me and people like me” for electing Obama. It is a lie. The people who are really to thank are the people who support, enable, coddle big government in the name of “conservatives” until someone looking on really can’t tell much substantive difference. I have said all along that the difference between McCain and Obama is NOT who is a statist, but who is the BIGGEST statist. Obama, of course, wins walking away, but the truth is the difference in the two is one of velocity, not of direction.

I am just sick and tired of being told I am going to “destroy the country” if I don’t passionately wave the attack banner for “evil lite” vs “evil.” It is just not so.


193 posted on 10/29/2008 2:54:40 PM PDT by slnk_rules (http://mises.org)
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To: MetallurgicalConservative

A vote for Baldwin says, “If Obama wins, I still believe that there *will* be a 2012.”


194 posted on 10/29/2008 2:54:48 PM PDT by Lauren BaRecall (Sarah Palin! Need I say more?)
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To: MetallurgicalConservative
I don’t want John McCain in the White House.

So let's elect The One, instead, because that is the choice.

195 posted on 10/29/2008 2:56:55 PM PDT by fanfan (SCC:Canadians have constitutional protection to all opinions, as long as they are based on the facts)
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To: Dead Corpse

LOL!

I’m right behind you!


196 posted on 10/29/2008 2:58:23 PM PDT by Monkey Face (I just let my mind wander and it didn't come back.)
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To: Toddsterpatriot

“Most liberal trolls feel that way.”

I tend to believe that conservative thought can stand on its own. Too bad that you do not feel the same. Negative campaigning is a crutch for weak ideas, and it’s further proof that McCain couldn’t hold a candle to someone like Jindal.

I won’t accept being waterboarded just because it’s better than being oil-boarded.


197 posted on 10/29/2008 2:59:34 PM PDT by MetallurgicalConservative
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To: MetallurgicalConservative; fanfan
A vote for Baldwin says “Show me something better in 2012, please.”

Dude, please leave me alone. It's your personal page that has this crap, not mine.

I’m a “big tent” conservative. I believe it is our imperative to seek out common areas of interest with social and economic moderates where we can to build a lasting coalition based on ideas.

But now, you can't vote for McCain because you're a conservative purist.

Get lost!

FF, he's back from break.

198 posted on 10/29/2008 3:00:23 PM PDT by houeto ("Drill Here! Drill Now!" & "Go Palin, Go!")
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To: Dead Corpse

“Like I said, sign me up for “Palin/Hunter 2012” t-shirts, bumper stickers, and yard signs.”

I’m more of a Palin/Jindal kind of guy, but Palin/Hunter sounds pretty wonderful right now.


199 posted on 10/29/2008 3:01:00 PM PDT by MetallurgicalConservative
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To: agrandis
If you lose what little freedom you have left under Obama, you can in large part thank all the Republicans which have been working for unprecedented powers for the Presidency these last 8 years.

Bingo!!!!

200 posted on 10/29/2008 3:01:44 PM PDT by slnk_rules (http://mises.org)
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