Yet they have no problem assuming life arose from natural causes. Look at me, I've got cake and I'm eating it too.
Scientists are not considering a complex life form such as what we find now but a much simpler self replicating molecule.
Can you think of a single invention by man that is a "self replicating" anything? I cannot conceive of anything in the physical world that man has designed that is self-replicating. Can you?
Software code can be written such that it is self replicating. However, this software is entirely dependent upon the existence of the hardware for which it run. Software cannot be coded to replicate itself without the existence of the hardware. Furthermore, the initial replication code will have to write itself! This is why I think mathematicians, programmers and engineers are less likely to be evolutionists than pure scientists. I would love to see this polled, but given the evolution is god mentality of academia, I hold out no hope an accurate poll of this could be taken.
Therefore, the "much simpler self-replicating molecule" is still dependent upon the hardware and software sides of the entire molecule if it is to work. If this is not the case, please provide a real world or realistic theoretical example which replicates itself? You'd think with the rich diversity of life forms on this planet, these real world examples would be everywhere.
I'd tried telling my boss that my next code assignment will write itself through evolution. He told me "good, at least the work will get done on schedule".
They (SETI) are assuming that, because we have yet to see it happen naturally, those frequencies are more likely to be used by intelligence than by nature.
"Yet they have no problem assuming life arose from natural causes. Look at me, I've got cake and I'm eating it too.
This sounds like a non-sequitur. Or I don't understand your point.
You seem to have missed the rest of my point that they will assume a natural cause first and only when that avenue has been exhausted will they conclude something else. Not only the type of signal is important but where it originates will be considered. The point I'm making here is that SETI is not limited to 'order' in the determination of a signal's origin.
Scientists are not considering a complex life form such as what we find now but a much simpler self replicating molecule.
"Can you think of a single invention by man that is a "self replicating" anything? I cannot conceive of anything in the physical world that man has designed that is self-replicating. Can you?
What does this have to do with science looking for some combination of chemicals with specific attributes?
"Software code can be written such that it is self replicating. However, this software is entirely dependent upon the existence of the hardware for which it run. Software cannot be coded to replicate itself without the existence of the hardware.
The hardware/firmware supplies the necessary rules, constraints and substrate for the execution of each command. Nature supplies the same environment to molecular interactions where the rules are realized in the 'laws of physics', the constraints by the availability of energy, and the substrate by complex molecules such as amino acids, sugars, and alcohol as well as other less complex molecules and simple atoms.
To steal some of your comment - life as we know it is entirely dependent upon the existence of the laws of physics, energy and raw materials for it function. It cannot replicate without that environment.
"Furthermore, the initial replication code will have to write itself!
There are synthetic molecules which replicate themselves.
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/tt/1990/may09/23124.html
The situation may have been even simpler with some molecules replicating other molecules.
"He proposed the idea that life began within a mixture of simple rather then complex organic molecules, multiplied through catalyzed reaction cycles and an external source of available energy. In other words, in the beginning it wasn't a molecule that replicated itself, there were a bunch of molecules that replicated each other. Life didn't start, according to this theory, with 'I replicate myself', it started with 'I replicate you and you replicate me'." Robert Shapiro
"This is why I think mathematicians, programmers and engineers are less likely to be evolutionists than pure scientists. I would love to see this polled, but given the evolution is god mentality of academia, I hold out no hope an accurate poll of this could be taken.
Unfortunately, while they have well ordered, logical minds, mathematicians, programmers and engineers are also less likely to have training in and understand the underlying biology and biochemistry.
You might look up papers by J. Shallit (a mathematician/Programmer)and W. Elsberry. (a biologist)
I too would like to see a poll of this.
"Therefore, the "much simpler self-replicating molecule" is still dependent upon the hardware and software sides of the entire molecule if it is to work. If this is not the case, please provide a real world or realistic theoretical example which replicates itself? You'd think with the rich diversity of life forms on this planet, these real world examples would be everywhere.
Given the size of the world, and the number of organisms looking for energy it is not surprising that we have not seen natural replicators everywhere. We would need to find a planet where life is just beginning to find them. We are limited to trying to find out if it is possible.
A real world example of a self replicating molecule? Prion, virus, bacteria, your DNA,...
"I'd tried telling my boss that my next code assignment will write itself through evolution. He told me "good, at least the work will get done on schedule".
It's being done.
As a programmer you might be interested in this http://www.sq3.org.uk/papers/evselfreps.pdf
Just FYI (don't tell anyone), one of my degrees is in CS.