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To: kosta50
What is really being asked is not whether God is one and the same no matter what we think, but whether we all worship the same idea of Who true God is.

Even that doesn't really get at it, in my opinion, because I don't worship an idea of God; I worship God through (or by way of) my idea or concept of God.

I would say that we all worship a different divine idea,

I think there are many, myself included, who would take issue with the claim that we worship a "divine idea", meaning, our idea of the divine. If what we are worshipping is our idea of God, then unless our idea of God is identical to God, we are not worshipping God. My idea of God is developing, since I am learning more and more about God. But God is not developing. Therefore, my idea of God is not God.

Since idolatry is possible, therefore it is possible to worship something other than God. But the question seems to be: what is it that distinguishes worship of the true God (even with deficient concepts of God) from idolatry?

And it seems to me that one's worship is idolatry if within one's concept of that which one is worshipping is createdness or contingency. In other words, from Romans 1 we know that all men can know (and at some level do know) that God is the creator of all things, both from the evidence given by nature and from within our own hearts. Therefore, when we take something that is (in our conception of it) created or contingent, and we worship it (treating it as if it is the Creator which we know at this deeper level), we are engaged in idolatry. Romans 1 helps us distinguish worship of the true God (even with a deficient concept of God) from idolatry, by showing us that we know God first (not necessarily in the order of time, but in the order of reasoning), through His creation as the eternal, all-powerful and righteous Creator. Therefore, if our conception of what we are worshipping contains createdness (i.e. non-eternality, contingency, having come into being, not being the Creator of all things, injustice), then we are not worshipping God but an idol (whether real or fictional).

Given all this, it seems to me that Jews and Muslims worship the one true God, because their concept of God (though in other respect deficient) treats God as the all-powerful and eternal Creator of all things who will judge all men justly at the final judgment.

-A8

309 posted on 05/12/2007 5:56:03 AM PDT by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: adiaireton8

Given all this, it seems to me that Jews and Muslims worship the one true God, because their concept of God (though in other respect deficient) treats God as the all-powerful and eternal Creator of all things who will judge all men justly at the final judgment.
= = =

I am a bit . . . torn in my construction on the Muslim realities vis a vis the above.

I believe that the Muslims worship essentially a demonic moon god co-opted for political reasons by Muhammed in the beginning of his acquisitive wars of conquest etc.

However, God declares in Scripture that those who earnestly, diligently SEEK HIM, SHALL FIND HIM. And, the Muslims do ‘construe’ it that they ARE worshipping the God of Abraham.

So, like one’s hairdresser, I suspect God alone knows whether a given individual muslim is SEEKING HIM or off track devoted to the demonic moon god that pretends to be Almighty God.

Then there is that issue of being responsible for the light one has been given so far, to walk in.


316 posted on 05/12/2007 9:34:37 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: adiaireton8
Even that doesn't really get at it, in my opinion, because I don't worship an idea of God; I worship God through (or by way of) my idea or concept of God

It doesn't matter if it is your idea or a communal idea; it is still an idea. An icon of Christ is precisely that — an icon, an image, an idea of Christ; no one really thinks that's what He really looked like.

God. My idea of God is developing, since I am learning more and more about God

It will continue developing, because God is perfect and we will never know Him as he really is. So, by that approach, we will be worshiping an "idol" (our idea of God) forever.

What assures us that we are worshiping the "true God" is Christ. If we worship Christ, we know that we worship His Father and His Spirit, or simply the true, Triune God.

That's why Christ said that we can come to the Father only thorough Him. he is the only mediator between us (men[kind]) and God the Father.

This is reflected in our Creed "God of God, true God of true God..." wisely chosen words of the Fathers.

Otherwise, "true God" would really become a relativistic concept that would be all inclusive, no only of the Abrahamic God (Jews and Muslims), but of Hindu's Brahman who is described by upanishads in vedas as a singular:

If we admit that anyone who worships a divine Monad (one God) is no different than we are, then Christ himself is an idol and not true God.

Thus, we cannot for the sake of political correctness or "fairness" or cultural sensitivity or any kind of religious tolerance fad assume that all faiths that profess one single God are true faiths or that their God is true God, even though it is not like our God or is even inimical to Him.

322 posted on 05/12/2007 11:21:57 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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