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To: mockingbyrd; dangus; Pyro7480; Gamecock
Really? Really? You don’t see how deceptive this (whole) article is? You found the quote yourself!

Yes - I found the quote, and I didn't even have to look that hard. I even provided a direct link to it. At least three Catholics (you included) have accused the authors of fabricating the quote, and of outright lying. It was one such accusation that prompted me to locate the quote in the first place. But that didn't stop the accusations from continuing.

The overall thesis of the article is found in this paragraph:

It is clear from this official recognition that the Church of Rome’s estimation of Islam has experienced a fundamental change. The Biblical commandment not to venerate any strange god has been broken by Rome in order to credit Islam and its adherents with holding to the faith of Abraham. Patently, this novel re-assessment of the Muslim faith represents a major shift in the political policy of the Vatican. These official statements are carefully constructed religious discourse. They are aimed at engendering a new mood of respectful rapprochement and mutual understanding between the Papacy and Islam. As a device of diplomatic exchange, they show clearly that a new interfaith-ecumenicity is being propounded by Rome with the singular objective of embracing Islam and its peoples within a new international community of religious life and faith, a community incidentally, in which Rome enjoys priority as founder and senior partner.
. That said, and within the more immediate context of an "ecumenism of the Papacy with Islam", the article introduces and expounds on the Zenit article in dispute. Here's the quote within the greater context:
On an highly emotional spiritual level there has been a great common-ground meeting place between Rome and Mecca in the town of Fatima in Portugal. To quote a Catholic news organization, "Our Lady of Fatima is really Fatima, daughter of the Prophet Mohammed." On October 23, 1995, Iranian television began running stories that the apparitions in Fatima, Portugal in 1917 were religious phenomena of Muslim origin.”17 Islam teaches that men can achieve favor with God by what a person does. On the Fatima site in Portugal May 13th 2000, the Pope proclaimed a message that could be readily accepted by both Muslims and Catholics. “‘Pray, pray much and make sacrifices for sinners; many souls go to hell because they have no one to pray and make sacrifices for them’....”18
I don't read the Zenit mention as alleging that Zenit was making the disputed claim - indeed, the very next sentence expounds on it, acknowledging that the Zenit article was referring to Iranian TV coverage. The Berean Beacon's criticism wasn't lobbed against Zenit, but rather against JPII, for giving an ecumenically fuzzy message to the city of Fatima, presumably towards the goal of improving relations with Muslims, despite the earlier Zenit coverage.

I don't see any deception on the authors' part. Shoddy writing, maybe - allowing for hostile audiences to misread and misinterpret it's meaning - but not deception.

128 posted on 05/11/2007 7:55:07 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (FR Member Alex Murphy: Declared Anathema By The Council Of Trent)
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To: Alex Murphy
To quote a Catholic news organization, "Our Lady of Fatima is really Fatima, daughter of the Prophet Mohammed."

This sentence is deceptive, and I would suggest intentionally so. If Bennett is not able to make the distinction after 6 (and more likely 8 or more) years of seminary training, plus whatever training he had after his apostasy from the Catholic Church, then he should not have a written/online ministry at all. "Shoddy writing" is no excuse. The sentence would be correct if it read:

"To quote an Iranian television program, "Our Lady of Fatima is really Fatima, daughter of the Prophet Mohammed." or "To quote a Catholic news organization quoting Iranian televison, "Our Lady of Fatima is really Fatima, daughter of the Prophet Mohammed."

As a side note, the message that Pope John Paul proclaimed on 13 October 2000 is a direct quote from Our Lady of Fatima, and I am curious of the claim that it is "readily acceptable to both Muslims and Catholics" because I'm not sure that Muslims believe in making sacrifices to obtain graces for sinners.

131 posted on 05/11/2007 8:15:18 AM PDT by GCC Catholic
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To: Alex Murphy

show me where I ever accused the author of fabircating the quote.....I said said he delibertly misrepresented the context. Which he did.

Do not accuse me of saying things I didn’t say.


132 posted on 05/11/2007 8:33:26 AM PDT by mockingbyrd (peace begins in the womb)
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