Posted on 10/10/2006 8:59:26 AM PDT by cryptical
Every product in the US has embedded taxes in it already.
And, every time you buy something, you're paying that embedded tax.
That's a relief. If I made sense to you, I would have to question my thinking.
And they STILL won't show up on pay stubs, but STILL WILL be collected in exactly the same way they are today under the FairTax.
Such argument is what we call a "red herring:" interesting but irrelevant.
You seem baffled about the real issue and that would be freedom. You have no idea what you pay in federal taxes b/c it is not possible to calculate and what you can calculate is not done easily. How does one calculate the AMT prior to tax day?
Look, just because YOU have no idea about how to calculate your taxes doesn't mean I don't, nor does it mean you couldn't do it if you wanted to. It's not that hard.
I certainly DO know what I pay in Federal Taxes. I certainly DO have a very good idea of how much I pay indirectly in Corporate and Excise taxes through higher prices. And if I so choose, I can calculate my AMT on any day of the year I choose.
If you choose to remain blind, so be it. But that choice is not a reflection of the tax code, it's a refection of you.
Blah, blah, blah ... power to the people ... Never mind the facts, give me emotion and platitudes ... that's what I'm hearing from you bud. Want power? organize you neighborhood, vote the ba$tards out, stop whining about how powerless you are and get involved. Actively support entitlement reform. Actively support spending reform. Lobby your representatives. Lobby your neighbors. Actively support tax form, even the FairTax if you choose ... but please ... stop whining about how clueless you are and how powerless you think everybody is.
Work from a position of knowledge and power not one of ingorance and fear.
Air smells fresher too...
OK. so enlighten me: has anything changed?
I suspect the ratios are pretty much the same.
Try not paying your taxes or maybe you'll be audited and then you will meet the monster too.
Try not paying your FairTax ... see what happens. What's your point. If you are going to engage in illegal activity, then yes, you meet with an unpleasant endgame.
Besides, the monster to which I refer is an analogy for all those "hidden taxes" you keep suggesting are making it impossible for you to know anything, not the "enforcer." You're seeing things that aren't as big or as numerous as you fear.
Yes b/c I save all of my receipts so I do know what I pay in Sales Taxes... the best part about them: they weren't taken at gun point I willingly handed those taxes over. The answer, btw, is none of your business.
No need to get snippy. You obviously are a truly are unique individual. I'm surprised that someone so diligent and informed about their spending is so clueless about their income situation. I'm pretty savy about my tax situation, and, interestingly enough, I also save most of my receipts. But, I've never had the discipline to go through every one ... thousands of them every year ... and ferret out the sales tax ... even though I could benefit from the exercise in potential tax savings. And besides that, I can't keep the rest of my family disciplined enough to even SAVE most of their receipts.
I never asked you to tell me how much you paid; I only asked if you really know. Whether you truly know or not is between you and you maker. I'm sure there a others who might see this thread who will say: "Hmmmm... I don't save receipts, and I really don't know how much I pay in sales taxes. Dimples has a good point. But, as we now know, that won't be you ... you add up the tax on all your receipts.
Guess you're one of those that thinks taxation is a zero sum game, and that static ananysis reflects reality.No I just don't pretend that "revenue neutral" sales tax doesn't have meaning when revenue's have increased by income tax tax cuts.
If you think you can show how adding 30% to existing retail sales and services would not have an negative effect and raise the same amount of revenue as the Bush tax cuts...have at it.
I see your love affair with the income tax and the IRS hasn't abated.
Forget your love of the IRS you should hang your heads for kicking a guy when he is down and isn't around to defend himself. If you have sniping to do at least have the common decency to do it privately.
The FairTax shills cite Jorgenson's study and say it's 20-22% of the price. Haven't you ever visited the Fairtax site?
You know darn well that the illegals pay no FICA and neither do their employers, no wage taxes, no FUTA....and the point that the only way we can get them to pay federal taxes is via a sales tax is the point.
So? Why pass a new law that will be scoffed at when you can just enforce the current law ...
No, you got it right.
Actually, not all. Excise taxes both individual and corporate will remain, though they are admittedly small in magnitude compared to the replaced taxes. Other levies not part of Subtitles A, B, or C of the Internal Revenue Code will also remain (Subtitles D through K remain unchanged.)
You explicitly called out unemployment taxes. Employers in states with their own unemployment programs (all states, btw) pay 0.8% on the first $7000 of income...a WHOPPING $56 per covered employee (dropping to $42 at the end of 2007.)
State Unemployment insurance programs, representing a order of magnitued larger burden, will not be eliminated by the FairTax; the 56$ will be shifted to the FairTax, not eliminated. Once it's buried in the FairTax, how will you know how much it is? (HINT: you won't!)
As we have been saying for quite some time now, no matter how you spin it, your paystub explicitly accounts for over 80% of your Federal Tax Burden (85% - 87% if you're in the bottom 95% of all income earners ... that's just about everybody.) The other 20% (13% - 15% for MOST) includes ALL of the other so-called embedded taxes (primarily corporate profit tax and excise taxes.) List as many as you like, they're ALL in there.
This is not the big, unfathomable mystery you keep pretending it is.
BTW I never said the tax code wasn't complex, I said neither YOU nor ANYONE ELSE wades through 60K pages of tax code to calculate their taxes. Aside from the fact that there aren't nearly that many pages to begin with, only a few actually apply to you (and to most others.)
You just don't like the bill that I work for...
You got that right. And I mostly don't like it because its implementation will likely be an economic disaster. It's supporters are largely ill informed about both current tax law and the likely impacts of implementing the FairTax. They have attempted to sell the bill using significant misrepresentation, even outright lies. And when this is proved, they change the argument or start calling names. Most of them have difficulty staying on point in a discussion preferring instead to wander all over the proverbial map changing their arguments to avoid substantive debate. In the end, most seem to resort to the "you must make you living from the Tax Code ruse, or the "you have an agenda" dismissal ... as though FairTax supporters are agenda-free ... right.
...and I'm not a "bud" and if I were I wouldn't be your bud.
Again, no need to get snippy; but, if you are the type who can only get along with people who agree with everything you say or believe, then you're probably right. And that's pretty sad. You don't have to be disagreeable just because you disagree.
You don't even know me (or maybe you do ... I used to live in PA for about 20 years ... who knows?)
I see your love affair with the income tax and the IRS hasn't abated.That's it? That's the best argument in favor of your Fairtax you can come up with?
Forget your love of the IRS you should hang your heads for kicking a guy when he is down and isn't around to defend himself. If you have sniping to do at least have the common decency to do it privately.Yes, the poor dear in question, like all Fairtaxers, has never done any backstabbing behind another poster's back.
How would that ensure that everyone pay some tax (including illegals?)AFT FAQ #49
Is the FairTax progressive? Do the rich pay more and the poor pay less as a percentage of their spending?So how does the Fairtax ensure that everyone pay some tax again?Absolutely, as you can see in Figure 6 below – where the graph shows annual expenditures for a family of four and the corresponding FairTax effective tax rates. The poor actually pay less than zero-percent retail sales tax on their spending. Much like with the earned income tax credit of today, the rebate may give them more money than they actually spend on retail taxes. Especially if they are frugal and buy mostly used products. On the other hand, the wealthy approach a maximum of 23-percent retail sales tax on their spending.
What difference does it make? You're impervious to appeals based on our history as a nation, economics, efficiency, visibility, simplicity, or freedom.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.